Chewie
New member
I want to record two guitars, bass, drums and vocals at once but I want each to go to a new track.
I'm using Cool Edit.
What hardware would I require?
I'm using Cool Edit.
What hardware would I require?
T
thehouseofshawn
New member
You'll need something, anything that allows this. They vary...you need to take into consideration of using a DAW (Something that doesn't require a computer, but records to the same file format style) or hardware for the computer...It is a huge vast area. I just noticed a cool thing that lets you record 8 things at once...it's at presonus.com/firepod.html
Almost anything like that will do the same duties.
What is the computer requirements you're running at?
Almost anything like that will do the same duties.
What is the computer requirements you're running at?
B
Bulls Hit
Well-known member
You're going to need at least 8 inputs for that.
The most cost effective solution would be an M-Audio 1010LT pci card. $220 gets you 8 inputs, 8 outs and a couple of preamps to get you going quickly.
If you need more than 8 inputs, you can stack a 2nd 1010LT in alongside the first.
You'll also need a mixer to preamp your other 6 inputs. Check out the Yamaha MG series of mixers
The most cost effective solution would be an M-Audio 1010LT pci card. $220 gets you 8 inputs, 8 outs and a couple of preamps to get you going quickly.
If you need more than 8 inputs, you can stack a 2nd 1010LT in alongside the first.
You'll also need a mixer to preamp your other 6 inputs. Check out the Yamaha MG series of mixers
Chewie
New member
Well this definatly helps. But seems like more money that I had hoped. Oh well.
Chewie
New member
I don't know it this sounds stupid.
I see the 1010LT has two inputs I could use with the mics bu the others would need a mixer like you said. Now how do I use a mixer to get mics into the 1010LT? I mean as six sperate mic channels?
I see the 1010LT has two inputs I could use with the mics bu the others would need a mixer like you said. Now how do I use a mixer to get mics into the 1010LT? I mean as six sperate mic channels?
Chewie
New member
Bulls Hit said:
I've been looking on the website and the don't talk about this. Can you explain? And is this sort of this also possible between one 1010LT and one OMNI studio?
Middleman
Professional Amateur
Cheapest way to do this would be this.
http://www.musiciansbuy.com/behringer_ada8000_mic_preamp.html
You would also need an IO card in the computer.
By the time you buy both these you may spend just as much getting a used Delta 1010 around $400.
That's about as cheap as it gets.
http://www.musiciansbuy.com/behringer_ada8000_mic_preamp.html
You would also need an IO card in the computer.
By the time you buy both these you may spend just as much getting a used Delta 1010 around $400.
That's about as cheap as it gets.
B
Bulls Hit
Well-known member
Chewie said:
Your mics go into mixer channels 1 -6 and you output from those channels, using either direct outs or inserts, or the main/aux busses of the mixer, into the inputs of the soundcard.
Chewie said:
The cards are hooked together using the s/pdif jacks - this provides synchronisation using a digital clock signal.
Yes it would be possible to do a similar thing with the omni studio, as it also has s/pdif
Chewie
New member
Umm.....?
To be honest I don't know what all those terms mean but are you sure that I can get 6 separate preamped outs from the mixer?
Also what exactly are busses. Especially when sound cards talking about having more channels by bussing.
Bulls Hit said:
To be honest I don't know what all those terms mean but are you sure that I can get 6 separate preamped outs from the mixer?
Also what exactly are busses. Especially when sound cards talking about having more channels by bussing.
Chewie
New member
New idea!
Is it possible to have a mixer with a s/pdif out and then input that to the sound card but with the program recognising the separate channels?
Is it possible to have a mixer with a s/pdif out and then input that to the sound card but with the program recognising the separate channels?
B
bluwater
New member
Chewie said:
also had this question myself.
C
crankz1
...
Chewie said:
Nope.
SPDIF is only two channels. It would end up being a sub-mix of all the channels to a stereo output.
B
Bulls Hit
Well-known member
Chewie said:
Any of the MG mixers from the 12/4 upwards will get you 6 outs.
A bus is a signal path that to which you can route some or all of your inputs.
The simplest mixers are 2-bus mixers, so they just have 2 outputs, the left and right channels of a stereo signal.
The MG12/4 is known as a 4-bus mixer because it has 2 seperate stereo signals, (or 4 mono outputs). These are called the Stereo and Group outs. Switches on the mixer's channel strips let you route each input to either the stereo or the group bus. Or both. Or neither. The pan control on each channel strip lets you send the signal to either the left or right channel on the output bus. Using the buses like this will get you 4 seperate mono tracks into your computer.
However the MG mixers also have channel inserts that let you output directly from the channel strip, and bypassing the stereo & group buses. These inserts are kind of like a taxi cab straight into your computer
Chewie
New member
Bulls Hit said:
Ok. I know I gotta be annoying now but I've been to the site and looked at the pics and still don't see how you can take six outputs from the mixers. Please explain as if talking to the person an idiot calls an idiot.
B
Bulls Hit
Well-known member
If you can dl the manual pdf, have a look at the back of the unit.
The first 4 channels have preamps and inserts jacks. You output from them into 4 inputs on your soundcard, and to 4 tracks in your s/w.
The next 2 channels have preamps but no inserts, so you route these to the main bus. Pan the first of these chanels left, pan the other right. THe left main out goes into input 5, the right main out goes to input 6 of the soundcard
The first 4 channels have preamps and inserts jacks. You output from them into 4 inputs on your soundcard, and to 4 tracks in your s/w.
The next 2 channels have preamps but no inserts, so you route these to the main bus. Pan the first of these chanels left, pan the other right. THe left main out goes into input 5, the right main out goes to input 6 of the soundcard
Chewie
New member
Insert?
So the inserts are outs?
Are they preamped from the board.
What are they supposed to be for?
So the inserts are outs?
Are they preamped from the board.
What are they supposed to be for?
J
Jim Y
New member
Bulls hit gives a very good tip about d/loading the pdf of a mixers "block diagram", though it's usually included in the manual, they can be hard to read.
It will show you exactly where the connections are in the signal paths.
Inputs and outputs are drawn horizontal while the busses, that are the common connections, drawn vertical - looks complicated but easy if you just trace one thing at a time.
On the physical mixer, the channel strips start from the left, vertical from the mix fader up to the top or down the back to the channel sockets. The cheapest only have inputs, next up have "inserts" and the best also have "direct outs".
A Direct Out is prefered as it should be a balanced 3wire (TRS) jack for soundcards with balanced inputs. You can still connect with a standard mono cable but loose a little volume - it works well enough. Direct out carries just the one channels pre-amplified signal, so it's always AFTER the top channel gain control. It depends on the design whether the Direct is connected Pre or Post the EQ or, Pre or Post the bottom channel fader. There may be switches so you can select which. The Block Diagram gives proof as to the exact arrangement.
The Insert connection is interesting. It's a 3 wire (TRS) jack but not balanced or stereo.
An insert is intended to let you "insert" another device (maybe a compresser) in the channels path. An insert cable is a "Y" with two mono (TS) jacks to a single TRS jack which plugs into the insert. One mono cable is connect to the TRS Ring (the send) and the other to the Tip (return). A switch in the jack socket disconnects the path through the mixer channel so it goes out of the send, through your external box and back on the return into the mixer path.
It so happens that the Send connection can be used as a direct out. Simply plugging in a mono jack just to the first "click" so that its tip makes with the sockets Ring contact does the job. You can do better and make a mono cable with the "hot" wire connected to both the Ring and Tip of a TRS jack so it picks off the direct out but leaves the signal still going all through the mixer channel. Alternately, wire just to the Ring of the TRS jack and leave the Tip "open" or disconnected. Plugging that in will pick off the channel but disconnect it from the mix bus.
Again, it may vary with the design whether the Insert is pre or post the channel eq.
Stereo mixer line input channels seem never to have direct outs or inserts. For those you need to use either the main mixer output or, preferably, another output bus such as an Alt or Sub according to the brand.
The affordable mixers most of use in home/project studios are really based on live mixing designs but can do studio work. A proper multitrack recording desk has a bus for every recorder track and has enough channels to be used for both recording and the final stereo mix down. These are very expensive and large, so most of us make do with the direct outs or inserts to record and mix in the computer software using its automation envelopes or virtual mixer. Some use a midi or usb equipped fader desk if they prefer hands-on rather than pushing a mouse about. The normal mixer has ended up just being a "bunch of pre-amps" because it is the most cost effective way of buying them.
It will show you exactly where the connections are in the signal paths.
Inputs and outputs are drawn horizontal while the busses, that are the common connections, drawn vertical - looks complicated but easy if you just trace one thing at a time.
On the physical mixer, the channel strips start from the left, vertical from the mix fader up to the top or down the back to the channel sockets. The cheapest only have inputs, next up have "inserts" and the best also have "direct outs".
A Direct Out is prefered as it should be a balanced 3wire (TRS) jack for soundcards with balanced inputs. You can still connect with a standard mono cable but loose a little volume - it works well enough. Direct out carries just the one channels pre-amplified signal, so it's always AFTER the top channel gain control. It depends on the design whether the Direct is connected Pre or Post the EQ or, Pre or Post the bottom channel fader. There may be switches so you can select which. The Block Diagram gives proof as to the exact arrangement.
The Insert connection is interesting. It's a 3 wire (TRS) jack but not balanced or stereo.
An insert is intended to let you "insert" another device (maybe a compresser) in the channels path. An insert cable is a "Y" with two mono (TS) jacks to a single TRS jack which plugs into the insert. One mono cable is connect to the TRS Ring (the send) and the other to the Tip (return). A switch in the jack socket disconnects the path through the mixer channel so it goes out of the send, through your external box and back on the return into the mixer path.
It so happens that the Send connection can be used as a direct out. Simply plugging in a mono jack just to the first "click" so that its tip makes with the sockets Ring contact does the job. You can do better and make a mono cable with the "hot" wire connected to both the Ring and Tip of a TRS jack so it picks off the direct out but leaves the signal still going all through the mixer channel. Alternately, wire just to the Ring of the TRS jack and leave the Tip "open" or disconnected. Plugging that in will pick off the channel but disconnect it from the mix bus.
Again, it may vary with the design whether the Insert is pre or post the channel eq.
Stereo mixer line input channels seem never to have direct outs or inserts. For those you need to use either the main mixer output or, preferably, another output bus such as an Alt or Sub according to the brand.
The affordable mixers most of use in home/project studios are really based on live mixing designs but can do studio work. A proper multitrack recording desk has a bus for every recorder track and has enough channels to be used for both recording and the final stereo mix down. These are very expensive and large, so most of us make do with the direct outs or inserts to record and mix in the computer software using its automation envelopes or virtual mixer. Some use a midi or usb equipped fader desk if they prefer hands-on rather than pushing a mouse about. The normal mixer has ended up just being a "bunch of pre-amps" because it is the most cost effective way of buying them.
M
manning1
Banned
great explanation jim y.
one of the reasons i built my own mic preamps is i wanted control back in my life. so could go direct from each one out to whatever sound input.
i found with the mackie for example , it puffed out going to a 2 inch +4 or more bias. so i built a buffer circuit to get needed gain. basically op amps.
could never get the gain high enough with mackie.
weak singers forget it !.
now of course its different as the sound cards dont need much to drive them.
as well as the mg i might be tempted to suggest maybe a couple of stand alone pre's when the poster has sufficient budget.
chewie - if your serious about this , at some point take a electronics course.
it will really help you in the years ahead in building and maintaing a studio.
and you never know - you might one day create your own great microphone preamp.
one of the reasons i built my own mic preamps is i wanted control back in my life. so could go direct from each one out to whatever sound input.
i found with the mackie for example , it puffed out going to a 2 inch +4 or more bias. so i built a buffer circuit to get needed gain. basically op amps.
could never get the gain high enough with mackie.
weak singers forget it !.
now of course its different as the sound cards dont need much to drive them.
as well as the mg i might be tempted to suggest maybe a couple of stand alone pre's when the poster has sufficient budget.
chewie - if your serious about this , at some point take a electronics course.
it will really help you in the years ahead in building and maintaing a studio.
and you never know - you might one day create your own great microphone preamp.
Chewie
New member
Some cofirmation
I'm almost sure this is correct but I want some confirmation. If I have a cable with 1/4" Stereo jacks on both sides and I open the jack and bridge the tip and the centre contacts on either end. Would that allow me to take output from the mixer to go into my soundcard while also allowing the signal to continue to pass through the mixer as normal?
I'm almost sure this is correct but I want some confirmation. If I have a cable with 1/4" Stereo jacks on both sides and I open the jack and bridge the tip and the centre contacts on either end. Would that allow me to take output from the mixer to go into my soundcard while also allowing the signal to continue to pass through the mixer as normal?
C
crankz1
...
Yup .... Bridge the Tip to the Ring at the mixer end. You could even just replace one of the TRS ends with a TS end, connecting the Tip and Ring wires to the Tip of the TS plug. And, of course Sleeve to Sleeve.