How to Mix 16 guitar tracks?

[captianchunk@ho]

Well My plan was using a Audix i5 and a rode NT-1A On my both guitar players cabs and positioning then to the sweet spot. Then making 4 takes each (16) tracks of guitar, Panning 8 hard left and the other 8 hard right. Is it possible if not EQed right that the tones will cancel each other out, or sound thin? what would be my best possible results for getting a full sound.
They used 2 differant tones out of each 4 takes they used to mix it up. and less gain. Any thoughts?
Thanks
Mike

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Why would anyone *want* to record 16 guitar tracks? Seems excessive to me. I smell trouble ahead for you man.

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

Yeah- you've got a lot of work cut out for yourself. I've recorded that many guitar tracks before, but it was to have flexibilty at the mix. I cut most of the mics out at that point.

EQ isn't so much the issue as phase issues. If the mics weren't properly placed to begin with there will be phase issues that will case cancellation If you are using a DAW, zoom all the way in on those tracks make sure they start at *exactly* the same place.

Getting a full sound out of that number of tracks involves panning them across the spectrum instead of just hard right and left. And the thing that most people take a while to figure out: cutting stuff OUT! JUst becuase you recorded it doesn't mean it has to be in the mix. If those are 4 takes of the exact same part you'll probably end up with big mush instead of big sound if you keep all those takes.

So find your main parts that sound the best and try this panning scheme:

Guitar 1 Mic 1- Hard left
G1 M2- 3 o'clock right
G2 M1- Hard right
G2 M2- 3 o'clock leff

Should give you wide but cohesive IF you don't have phase issues.
Pan your other parts similarly but not in the same places. If it starts sounding thin or strange, start muting tracks until the effect goes away.

That's a start, at least. Getting HUGE guitar sounds is kind of a challenge. Don't forget compression, gating, and creative EQ. Try it. Experiment. And don't be afriad to mute stuff. You'd be surpirsed how often cuttting something out makes the track sound fuller.

Have fun!
Chris

 

[giraffe]

just to put chris's post into bullet points

don't be afaraid to not use some tracks, sometimes less will sound better
this is because of phase issues.

pan them all mono (just for a test) and add the tracks one at a time, it the sound goes from good to crap (thin) upon the addition of a track, that's a phase problem, consider eliminateing that track.

you can try to keep the problem tracks apart in the stereo field (if you have some), but remember, if someone trys to listen to it on a really crap stereo with only one speaker, or a small tv, the gitars may sound like junk.


use all of the stereo field, not just L and R

 

[Myriad_Rocker]

Here's one...and I've heard of this happening.

You are tracking guitars...the guitar player plugs into a box that sends his signal out to 4 different amps. Each of those amps are mic'ed up. You record four takes of this, giving a total of 16 tracks. Two takes on one side of the spectrum and the other two takes on the other side. Essentially giving you 8 tracks of guitar on each side.

What problems does this pose? How might they have worked this out to sound good?

 

[captianchunk@ho]

Thanks for the great advise guys, we still have to lay down bass and vox, When i reach the mixing phase I will defenlty take your guys advise in consideration. I was messing around with them a bit earlier and I can tell in fullness sound when i cut some guitar tracks out. I will try your method chris and let you know the results. We just figuered the more guitar tracks the fuller. But that obviously is not the case.
Thanks
Mike

 

[Robertt8]

Well My plan was using a Audix i5 and a rode NT-1A On my both guitar players cabs and positioning then to the sweet spot. Then making 4 takes each (16) tracks of guitar, Panning 8 hard left and the other 8 hard right. Is it possible if not EQed right that the tones will cancel each other out, or sound thin? what would be my best possible results for getting a full sound.
They used 2 differant tones out of each 4 takes they used to mix it up. and less gain. Any thoughts?
Thanks
Mike

Good Lord man! 16 guitar tracks?! I'm guessing that if you removed atleast 12 of those tracks (or more). It'd sound better and would be a hell of a lot easier to mix.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

The problem with so many guitar takes is that with each additional overdub the issue of how tightly they were performed becomes an issue.

The most I've ever had anyone dub guitar is 4 seperate takes on rhythm... and the guy had to go back and fix some of the earlier tracks to make it work.

If you are doing that many tracks make sure they are RIGHT before moving on, because going back and figuring out which track is the one with the mistake can be time consuming.

 

[giraffe]

it's true, with that many takes your git player has to be a machine.