How on earth do they do that?

[sheldon]

How do they get that nice polished sound on a pro album such as a bon jovi album like "new jersey" or metallica's "black" album? Now I'm sure there is no one simple answer but is there something that they do in particular to get that polished feel to it?

 

[Vurt]

Pledge, spit, and a 100% cotton cloth.

Delve a little into the Mixing forum... plenty to read on this subject there.

 

[scottboyher]

Many thousands of dollars will help..

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

...not to mention - EXPERIENCE!

 

[pipelineaudio]

Slick and polish usually come from mastering

I got to hear the Unmastered versions of " New Jersey" and " slippery when wet", not too terribly long ago, in an argument about compression

they both sounded very big, and very clear, but had none of the glossy slick smooth top that the release had

 

[malcolm123]

How do they get that nice polished sound on a pro album such as a bon jovi album like "new jersey" or metallica's "black" album? Now I'm sure there is no one simple answer but is there something that they do in particular to get that polished feel to it?

Open up your wavefile and make a copy of it.
Take the original file and reverse it.
Match your starting points and paste the copy on top of the reversed original. Dat'll Do it.

No but seriously,
Do some searches in here on Mastering !

Thats called mastering

Malcolm

 

[esactun]

they both sounded very big, and very clear, but had none of the glossy slick smooth top that the release had

So how do they do that at mastering? I've always wondered. Is it multiband compression on the high freqs?

 

[strmkr]

Mastering isn't worth a dime if you don't do your absoulte best at every stage of the project starting from the time you set up the first session. great instruments with properly set intonation,new guitar strings,drum heads and the like,great mics with proper placement,room acoustics,experienced engineers and yada yada yada make a great album.It doesn't hurt to have some great musicians too!then top it off with a great mastering job!


Peace!!!!!!

 

[pipelineaudio]

Right, stuff's gotta sound good as is AND be " masterable". Its fun to laugh at tales from the mastering labs about projects they had to turn back cuz of some ,overzealous, douchebag, trust fund baby engineer at a 10$ an hour studio that zapped his tracks with a TC Finalizer before sending it to the lab

 

[jmproductions]

So how do they do that at mastering? I've always wondered. Is it multiband compression on the high freqs?

The high frequency stuff you're talking about is probably a harmonic generator type effect. Like that BBE thing, oh there are some great plug-ins that do this stuff, the names escape me right now. It's just called Enhancer on my Akai unit. Once I discovered it, I use it often but judiciously. Can really add some life to a dull track or master.

 

[jmproductions]

How do they get that nice polished sound on a pro album such as a bon jovi album like "new jersey" or metallica's "black" album? Now I'm sure there is no one simple answer but is there something that they do in particular to get that polished feel to it?

There's a buttload of harmonic enhancement on the Black album.

 

[littledog]

The high frequency stuff you're talking about is probably a harmonic generator type effect. Like that BBE thing, oh there are some great plug-ins that do this stuff, the names escape me right now. It's just called Enhancer on my Akai unit. Once I discovered it, I use it often but judiciously. Can really add some life to a dull track or master.

I seriously doubt it. Maybe in dire emergency, like trying to master something from a 2nd generation cassette - but a mastering engineer using an aural exciter/sonic maximizer on a professional big budget mix? Whew! That's a scary thought!

 

[jmproductions]

I seriously doubt it. Maybe in dire emergency, like trying to master something from a 2nd generation cassette - but a mastering engineer using an aural exciter/sonic maximizer on a professional big budget mix? Whew! That's a scary thought!

I might have to disagree here. Go ahead and pop in the Blues Traveler - Four CD if you have it. If not, get it, it's a great disc! First track is "Runaround", listen to the top end on that hi-hat. If you can tell me how to get something sounding that crisp without an exciter or whatever you call it, please tell me how.

Respectfully,
Joel

 

[littledog]

I'll have to defer to your judgement on that specific instance, since i don't have that disc. I've never seen a mastering engineer reach for an exciter on any of my projects, but if that's becoming the in vogue thing to do, it's pretty frightening. Any mastering people out there care to comment?

First we had the compression/limiting wars, next it's going to be whose record is the most excited? Yechhhh!

 

[pipelineaudio]

You can rest assured that there was no BBE sonic maximizer used in mastering in any but the whackiest of commerial releases

sometimes during mixing the Aphex Aural Exciter was used, you can hear it on Metallica-Kill Em All at the beginning of " phantom lord" and " hit the lights " also during parts of " whiplash" but probably not used much during mastering, if at all

also theres an old trick of using only the ENCODE side of Dolby Noise reduction to make a crispy top

lots of times, EQ and compression working together will make the ultra crisp cymbal sounds. this is before the days of multiband compression . but if you can control the behaviour of any one part of a sound using a compressor, effectively flattening the dynamics of it, you can boost EQ there in an INCREDIBLY effective manner...it will break glass easy that way

 

[littledog]

thanks for the most reassuring words pipeline.

I'll come in off the ledge now...

 

[jmproductions]

I don't have much experience with multiband compression although it would seem useful in mastering or when something is already mixed together. I could see how this could be an effective way to EQ the top. A friend of mine has this mastering plug-in (can't remember the name) that has both the mulit-comp and this exciter/enhancer thing. He took an old mix of mine and was really able to add some life to it, I thought it was a good tool. We maybe talking about different things here because I have never used the BBE thing, I am just assuming it is a similar process.

Littledog, you seem like you have a strong prejudice regarding use of this type of thing. Just curious as to why that is, childhood incident, perhaps? Kidding... The enhancer I am using can really make a snare and cymbals pop out nicely, but I will admit that just a little too much will start to make your track(s) sound like grainy crap. I'm not sure what other people are doing, but when I started using this thing I started hearing the mega-sheen that I have heard and am hearing on more and more recordings. I plan to experiment more with it in the future and I'll discuss my conclusions here.

 

[littledog]

Well, if it was just me, jm, i might agree maybe it had to do with traumatic toilet training. But just ask ANY pro engineer. You'll find that the vast majority would use sonic maximizers/aural exciters only as a last resort.

the reason? there are better ways to get there from here...

 

[mixsit]

I still get amazed at the apparent power and effect of simple limiting or even low ratio compression, let alone multiband or exciters, has on bringing up the background details in a mix and livening it up.(if that's the word) It is so tempting to start trying it by default, but I feel I'll work a bit harder on the mix by holding off.
But I love getting to that point where 2-buss compression really pays off. That's all the excitment I need for now.

Wayne

 

[pipelineaudio]

remember in all of this...multiband compression as a viable buyable product wasnt around back in the days of most of this stuff. So dont go assuming thats what the effect is.

I always get odd looks because I often speak of the " behaviour" of units and audio, while everyone else speaks of the sound....well this is a good reason why. Consider that frequency is changes in time. Consider that even with your everyday compressor, behaviour = time....and time=frequency, in a way of looking at it...

confused by where Im going with this crazy rant?
OK....

The threshold and ratio controls are functions of time...." NO" you gasp " they are functions of behaviour "

ahhh but yes and no. At the highest threshold settings, with the heaviest ratio settings, what are you catching?

transients

and what are transients mostly made of? and in fact really fast transients are by their nature er...FAST

and what is fast?

Hi frequency content

OK so thats one part of the controlled squish/blast the EQ combo to make slickness

Remember, the two seemingly TIME based functions on the compressor, attack and release...yes they work in time, but in this case, they are functions of behaviour

or time, depends how you want to look at it

am I nuts? Guess so, but still....

Different attack and release settings are going to alter the hi to low frequency content of your mix...maybe the attack is long enough to let the bass build. At the same time loosing your controlled slick EQ on the top, but maybe you have another compressor just hanging out there...

the transients are going to say whats happening, even if they are squished to death. Your job is going to be deciding how they are going to say it: pitch, volume, and behaviour

controlling the part that ISNT the transients, is like a hall monitor making sure the fat kids arent taking up the entire middle of the cafeteria, while the skinny guy needs to go take a whiz

All the chicks dig you cuz you can get them hall passes, and you dont want any collisions making the principal reassign you as a crossing guard!