How much should I spend on a preamp?

[jeak]

I recently posted here asking whether I should try an SM7, RE20, or other mic for recording my deep singing voice. Thanks to all who responded. I think I might have put the cart before the horse in shopping for mics before preamps.

I did a search and found an excellent post by Richard Monroe (it's #4 in this thread).

Here is the part I'm hoping for more discussion about:

You will only gain the real benefits of a kickass preamp if you have the mics, the room, the expertise, and the source to make it worth the investment. Also, preamps, like race cars, spend 80% of the money for the last 20% of performance, so the advantages of a big time pre may not be as dramatic as you would like, but they are there.

So here's my situation. Humble recording environment (bedroom). Humble recorder (16-bit Roland hard disk unit). No ideal mic yet (though I am shopping).

I want to be as serious as I can be, though, without wasting money on something that I don't (yet) have the talent or the circumstances to appreciate.

Based on some research, I'm tempted to go for a Great River ME-1NV. For less than half that, I'm also looking at an RNP. For much less than half of that, I could get a DMP-3.

Is the Great River too good for me and my bedroom studio? Better to save the money for other things? I still plan to get a nice mic one way or the other. Just thinking I should start with a good pre so I'll have something to run the mic through when I get it.

Thanks for putting up with my vocal-recording newbieness.

 

[jaykeMURD]

I'd say if your room isn't treated; i.e., not ideal conditions, the RNP should be fine. The Great River will really show off that bad sounding ambience, if not in a controlled envronment. However, I think, if you can afford the RNP, skip the DMP3, and get the RNP. The RNP has much more flavour and depth than the DMP3. You should definatley try to test the DMP3 and RNP out, you may like one more than the other.

 

[jkokura]

I will echo that I'd get the RNP if I were in your position, but if you can afford to get a GR, than you can definately afford to get the RNP and then spend some money on room treatment!

Get some 703 (rigid) fiberglass insulation, cut it into 2'x2' strips and cover it in black/grey/whatever cloth and find out where to hang it in your room! Check out John Sayer's site (http://johnlsayers.com/) for some absorber/diffuser construction plans, and take a look at Ethan Winer's site (http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html) for some ideas as well.

If you can figure out how to treat your room AND then go for the GR, than that's probably going to be a stellar move...

Jacob

 

[jeak]

Thanks, guys. Great info as always.

I should mention that I am considering mainly dynamic mics (RE20, SM7) precisely because I know a condenser would be more likely to pick up my bad room, not to mention noise outside the windows. I have thought about room treatment, but it's not practical right now. Ideally I hope to have the studio in a dedicated space someday. Its current bedroom space is all windows -- not great for fiberglass wall treatments.

Would a Great River + dynamic still accentuate a weak room? I'm not looking for excuses to spend twice what I need to. I just wouldn't want to miss out on what the GR has to offer if there is a way to make it work for me with the right mic.

OTOH, I if the RNP will do me just as well, I'm happy to spend 5 bills rather than 10-plus. Depth and character are exactly what I'm after, so the RNP is sounding good already.

 

[BigRay]

DAV BG-1 ////700 bucks, and world class.

Research it on GS.

I dont have experience with Great River, as I prefer the clean variety pres..but i Have used the Neve Portico, own Millennia HV-3C, Pendulum MDP 1, electronaut and others...

Great River seems to be the flavor of the month.of course BAE and Neve Impersonators will always get reccomended. (I dont care for those either)

Like I said before, I dont care for the RNP at all. To me it sounds like a cheap preamp, whereas with the DAV, you really would be hard pressed to find adifference between it and a pre 3 times the price. (like the EAR for example). The Grace preamps are another cheapish option, to me sounds a little thin...also the Apogee Mini Me..

sounds like you need to research more....Mercenary Audio lets people try out gear, as does atlas pro audio...they dont stock dav so you have to get the davs direct(DAV creator wont allow them to be retailed because it would raise the price)

 

[jeak]

Hey, BigRay/Teddy. Thanks as always. I don't mind more research. I'm off to study those ones you mentioned. Now I'm thinking maybe I should look at a Meeks or something with a compressor as well. So many choices ...

 

[Supercreep]

I think you should reassess your situation.


Maybe you shouldn't be looking at a high-end pre to go with your 16-bit hard disk recorder just yet.... You are just starting out here, and you need some fundamentals if this is something you're going to have a long term interest in. Don't worry - the desire to have a GR won't ever go away. There's lots of good stuff out there.

Start with your room - you don't have to get it completely dialed, but it's important for you to understand what is going with your particular situation acoustically. Know why you hear what you hear; if you don't know what it is you can't fix it.

Talent and quality instruments kept in good repair are concepts to be embraced. The best gear in the world won't make a bad guitar or poorly tuned drum sound good.

Cables are gear, too.

You monitors should be decent enough so that you can have some semblance of accuracy so your mix has less of a chance of sounding like shit on some other dude's stereo. How accurate is up to you. If you're the only person listening, it might not be as important. Nevertheless, you may not be able to appreciate some of the nuance brought in to play with a nice bit of kit without some competent monitors.

Your room is fine and you don't need monitors? Ok. I think you should invest in a better interface. Something with converters and stock pres that will cut the mustard for you, since your ear is the most important part of the audio chain here. You can always upgrade to something better, but it's nice to have something you can grow into or at least not render obsolete with your next major purchase.

Now some mics. I have a pile of cheap chinese condensers. Some are useful, some are not quite. Had I only purchased one or two and saved my money, I could have a pair of AT 4050s. That would have been nice. My advice to you is to pick up a matched pair of quality mics.

Then you'll be ready for the GR.

 

[chessrock]

Is the Great River too good for me and my bedroom studio?

Way too much for a guy recording off-key demos in his bedroom using a Radio Shack mic. Wait a little while.

.

 

[xstatic]

I say go for it if you are serious and are willing to make the investment. If you get ag reat pre now, it will be there when the rest of your system finally gets up to par. IN fact, it may spur to make the other changes. As far as your room goes, the GR preamp will still be better. I would much rather have an excellent preamp start to reveal the qualities of my room than use a preamp that can't even pick any of those qualities up.

I t certainly may make more sense to invest in other things first, but don't let things like the fact that youa re recording to a Roland, or that you are using a dynamic mic discourage you from getting a decent preamp. I also would not consider Great River to be a "flavor of the month". Nothing against BigRay or the DAV Bg-1, but there are more of those used on the market it seems right now than Great River's. Also, The Great River really seems to be more of the "Flavour of the last 4 Years" .

 

[jeak]

Thanks for the advice, all.

My situation is humble by choice and by necessity. By choice because I am a composer first and not an engineer. By necessity because I don't have unlimited funds.

I have recorded a whole album with a 4-track cassette deck and another album with an iMac and a MOTO-828. While my next project will be my first "serious" vocal endeavor, I would say that I am past the "off-key demo with Radio Shack mic" stage. Maybe not by much, but I still want to do the best I can with limited funds and technical knowledge. I do take some pride in at least trying to do a lot with just a little. That may not be "the best" way to operate, but I rather enjoy the challenge.

The Roland recorder is humble for sure, but it keeps me from tangling my hands and brain in too much high tech and snakes of wires slithering everywhere. As much I would like to jump into a high-end recording rig, I fear it would hamper me creatively.

Maybe I am working toward mutually exclusive goals (another fun challenge), but I still would like to do the best I can without spending money that my ears won't appreciate.

Supercreep, this is very interesting (as is everything else you said):
<<I think you should invest in a better interface. Something with converters and stock pres that will cut the mustard for you, since your ear is the most important part of the audio chain here.>>

Any suggestions?

 

[Supercreep]

Thanks for the advice, all.

The Roland recorder is humble for sure, but it keeps me from tangling my hands and brain in too much high tech and snakes of wires slithering everywhere. As much I would like to jump into a high-end recording rig, I fear it would hamper me creatively.




Any suggestions?

....It won't hamper your creativity. It will unfetter it.


My only experience is with Tascam portastudio, MD8, and now my DAW, which is based around a MOTU 896HD and a PC. I won't tell you what's best for you.... My advice is to lurk in the various forums until you stumble upon something that strikes your interest.

And keep askin' questions.

-Casey

 

[jeak]

Thanks, Casey. Before I bought the Roland, I was this close to buying an 828 MkII and Digital Performer (or possibly Logic) to go with a new Mac. I don't know what happened, but suddenly I was filled with dread over computer freez-ups, inadequate RAM, processor speeds, etc. Just as suddenly, I was filled with a yearning for my old Fostex X-15 4-track that I had in the early 1980s. Just a couple of knobs and a couple of sliders.

I still wanted to do MIDI sequencing and record audio, so I ended up with the Roland MV-8000. It's marketed as a sampler/groove box, but it does full MIDI sequencing and 8 tracks of audio. It's not my dream machine, but it's the closest I could find. Until I get out of this hardware mind-set (knobs + sliders), I don't see getting back into the PC/Mac thing. Unless I really, really have to. At that point I might just look for an old 1" 8-track RTR and let 'er rip!