how-many watt amp? do i really need

J

jitter bug

New member
so i've been piecing together a small amateur studio setup, which includes: a keyboard (microkorg), drum machine (boss dr 660), recorder (yamaha aw1600), and my american tele.
i am currently shopping some varying mic's. one for vocals, and maybe a couple others to mic instruments (recomendations welcomed and encouraged)
i have a LINE 6, though really am not much of a fan.

Here is the real question and purpose of post: i am looking for a more vintage/vintage style tube amp w the more basic features for altering sound. i'd rather pick up some effect pedals seperately.
I wont be playing any gigs with it. maybe some band practice style jamming with a drummer bassist, second lead/rhythm guitar. though maybe a small intimate, borderline large posh closet size, venue.
all with the option to mic "this amp" to record and mix with my drum machine and keyboard. nothing professional, obv. just something to be somewhat proud of.

i've been looking at a well-taken-care-of used Vox 15 Watts Night Train all tube Head Amp. This with a quality speaker, be more than adequate???

Any advice or comments would be helpful. thought and time much appreciated.

thanks. the jit
 
The limitation IMHO of a "classic" valve amps is that they are not very versatile.

For studio use can I suggest three? This is not spam, just what I know best!

Blackstar HT-5 (head and get a variety of cabs) . More than loud enough for recording and a guitar amp with lower self noise you will not find. FX loop, Em. out.

Blackstar ID ( 15, 30, 60, 100 watts. Heads and combos)

If you want valves but want to kick more A than the Five, HT-20. (FX loop, EM out)

Dave.
 
Valve amps - I have a simple Kustom H5 5 watter that is VERY loud but only has ON & Vol knobs. It was quite cheap & I can get a few good sounds from it.
I have a little Pignose & an 80w SState amp for other sounds but a simple pedal can make a massive difference to all of them.
15 watts will get pretty loud & the Night Train is supposed to be cool.
With your line 6 you can get a lot happening - an emulated sound pushed through a small wattage tube amp can produce some excellent sounds.
Whatever you can get you'll have to spend a fair bit of time learning settings & particularly mic placement.
Good luck with whatever you get. Much can be achieved with basic tools and some inspiration.
 
The answer to your question depends on the sound you are after. If you are playing with a drummer and you want a clean or clean-ish sound, you will need an amp with a decent amount of power (at least 30-50 watts).

If you want full on distortion, 10-15 watts is more than enough volume.

The cabinet will make a difference as well. a 4x12 will seem louder than a 1x12, because it is giving you more coverage.

Also keep in mind that any tube amp that you are running wide open will just sound like it does, no matter that sort of tone shaping stuff you out in front if it. Once the tubes are clipping beyond a certain point, that's the tone you get...
 
Farview said:
The answer to your question depends on the sound you are after. If you are playing with a drummer and you want a clean or clean-ish sound, you will need an amp with a decent amount of power (at least 30-50 watts).

If you want full on distortion, 10-15 watts is more than enough volume.
Click to expand...

I think you got that backwards, huh?
 
Why would that be Greg? Ya need the watts for the clean headroom. Maybe you're coming at it more as a preference?
 
mixsit said:
Why would that be Greg? Ya need the watts for the clean headroom. Maybe you're coming at it more as a preference?
Click to expand...

Well I'm thinking a clean amp, like a typical tube Fender combo, doesn't need much wattage to be loud as holy fuck. A Vox AC30 is very loud. Clean headroom is one thing, but clean tone, a tone that stays clean with volume, doesn't need much power to be heard loud and clear. On the other hand, clipped/distorted/overdriven tone is compressed, flat, less dynamic, and needs a lot more power to stand out against a full band with bass, and maybe another guitar. A 10-15 watt amp set to kill is indeed loud, but it can lack the clean headroom that you mentioned to really jump out in a full band. That's one of the advantages of a 100 w tube amp. Sure they're way too loud for almost any scenario, but that aside, they have so much headroom that they can maintain their punch and dynamics while also being in tube saturation.
 
I know what Jay is saying....lower wattage amps tend to get to the distortion zone easier, and they aren't going to take your head off.....with a 30-50W amp, you have to get it turned up more, and at that point the amp is also real loud.


I had a brief love affair with the real low wattage amps 5-12W....but find I prefer amps in the 20-30W range. The real low wattage amps ended up being mostly one-trick-ponies.
I've had some 50W amps, and the additional volume is negligible...it's moslty about headroom. My 32W Dr. Z Route 66 is probably louder than most 50W amps. A lot depends on the gain stages in the amp and the voicing of the tone stack and the combination of the amp/cab..etc.

Want to find a super clean lower wattage amp....but not easy to find one. The real clean amps and up being monsters like the Twin Reverb...etc.
 
Ok I didn't think of it like that. There is a point i find where in either case (clean or distorted') as the watts go lower you find yourself in that area of its limitations' for sure.
 
miroslav said:
...Want to find a super clean lower wattage amp....but not easy to find one. The real clean amps and up being monsters like the Twin Reverb...etc.
Click to expand...
Again though it's all about context too. I used to run 'Twin with D120's -ok real clean speaker plus the very efficient bonus. But there were plenty of times :-)p back in the loud days) where I found that big clean' I was used to sucked up and didn't happen on some of our loud out door gigs.
Figure in 50 to 100 watts is really a fairly minor jump in loudness too. (IMHO this the realm where more speakers makes the difference.
 
Greg_L said:
I think you got that backwards, huh?
Click to expand...
ummm, no. In order to get volume and stay clean, you need the headroom that comes from having more power. As soon as you start clipping the power tubes, you aren't really clean any more. The clean sound on a vox ac-30 isn't exactly squeaky clean, it just isn't fuzzy. Same sort of thing with the classic Fender amps.

Try to get a super clean sound out of a 5 watt amp and a 50 watt amp and see which one is louder.

edit to add:

The speaker has a lot to do with how loud it is too. The Jensens in the old fenders are more efficient and cleaner than the Celestions in a marshall cab...

All things being equal, more power = louder clean.
 
Farview said:
ummm, no. In order to get volume and stay clean, you need the headroom that comes from having more power. As soon as you start clipping the power tubes, you aren't really clean any more. The clean sound on a vox ac-30 isn't exactly squeaky clean, it just isn't fuzzy. Same sort of thing with the classic Fender amps.

Try to get a super clean sound out of a 5 watt amp and a 50 watt amp and see which one is louder.

edit to add:

The speaker has a lot to do with how loud it is too. The Jensens in the old fenders are more efficient and cleaner than the Celestions in a marshall cab...

All things being equal, more power = louder clean.
Click to expand...

That's all true and I don't disagree. But I think you missed my point. Clean as tonal preference doesn't need a bunch of power to be cleanly audible. Look at jazz players and chicken-pickin country dudes. They're not playing through 100 w stacks. They use tiny little combos and can be heard just fine - because their tone is clean. They're not using a bunch of preamp gain that has already clipped the signal before it even reaches the power section of the amp. Comparing a 5w amp to a 50w amp is pointless because 5w amps are pretty useless for anything but bedroom playing and maybe sometimes recording. Of course the 50 is gonna have a ton more headroom. But that's not the comparison. The comparison is clean vs dirty and how much power is needed for each. I'm saying you can be just fine with less wattage if you're tone preference is on the clean side. A 22w Fender is much more punchy and articulate when set for cleans than the same 22w Fender with a pedal out front or a bunch of preamp clipping going on. If you want a bunch of "distortion" without getting fizzy or disappearing in the mix, you need more power.
 
For recording, & the tones you described you were after, I'd suggest an Egnater Tweaker 15w head, & a couple 1x12's with different speakers in 'em......The T15 does a decent Marshall type tone, & an ok Vok, but the Fender-ish tones are where this little amp sounds best to me....You can also use about any tube in the power section, without a need to re-bias, just plug-n-play....

For $400 new, w/warranty, I think it's a good little amp......

Playin live is another thing altogether though, while the T15 is pretty loud for 15w, I don't think it would keep up in a live situation, without being mic'd up....
 
thanks for all the feedback.

the vox 15w night train is used, "perfect sounding" condition. says a recent tube replacement. 325$.
New they are 400$. Does this sound like a typical price for used though good condition?

i am going around tomorrow to look at used selection. after reading all the replies i think ill stay in the 15watt, maybe 20-30. i really like the looks of the night train but am worried its my ocd.

i would prefer to stay away from buying new, mainly out of the obvious desire to get something better for lesser.

so that used vox? should i stop looking at the add and move on. plenty of fish right
bite it and get new?
keep looking around for used because there is always a hot deal around the corner?

thanks.jit
 
jitter bug said:
thanks for all the feedback.

the vox 15w night train is used, "perfect sounding" condition. says a recent tube replacement. 325$.
New they are 400$. Does this sound like a typical price for used though good condition?

i am going around tomorrow to look at used selection. after reading all the replies i think ill stay in the 15watt, maybe 20-30. i really like the looks of the night train but am worried its my ocd.

i would prefer to stay away from buying new, mainly out of the obvious desire to get something better for lesser.

so that used vox? should i stop looking at the add and move on. plenty of fish right
bite it and get new?
keep looking around for used because there is always a hot deal around the corner?

thanks.jit
Click to expand...

I don't think you're going to find too much out there in that watt/price range that will be better than the Night Train or Egnater Tweaker if you want a true tube amp. Yes, there are better amps, but not for that kind of price. Keep looking though. Do you have a cab already?
 
Not a good deal IMHO.
Over here 20% of that $400 new price would be tax so even a " mint, as new in box" must start at $360.

A re-valve means nothing, could be some cheapo Ruskkies!

Dave.
 
I'll give a +1 for the Blackstar H5-S

Don't be fooled by the 5W rating - this little fucker is LOUD and will easily do recording/practice duty.
Electrically it's the quietest amp I've ever played through, and you get an Fx loop, speaker emulation and the extra control called Infinite Shape Feature or ISF for short - this does a very passable attempt at morphing from British at one extreme & American at the other, with all sorts of things happening in between.

Well worth auditioning
 
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