How Many People Are Using Cassettes Here?

I did use cassette for some time because my old car only had a cassette player! But, let us be realistic about 'tape'?

What follows is about OR machines at 15ips but bear with, I shall get to cassettes! Magnetic tape suffers many serious audio shortcomings.
1) Harmonic distortion. Most machines were aligned for 0VU= 3% THD and that is diabolical compared to digital. Yes, THD falls with level but at -20VU it is still going to be 0.1% or so and that is several orders worse than digital.
2)Distortion is frequency dependent and gets worse at HF. Called "HF squash"
3) Noise,hiss is pretty high. Without Noise Reduction the very best you will get is perhaps 70dB below 0VU (but remember that distortion again?) Noise CAN be traded for THD especially if NR is used)

Tape has to move! And that motion has to be nigh on perfectly controlled. Even so wow and flutter cannot be entirely eliminated*. 'Flutter', rapid 'jitter' of the tape across the heads also causes a particularly insidious form of distortion called "scrape flutter" and this can be seen as extra side bands on say a 1kHz tone on an RTA. Very high grade transports managed to reduce this to (then) acceptable levels but like wow, it can never be eliminated entirely.

All these audio ills are compounded in the very narrow track, very low speed cassette format. I do however agree that a really good tape, I liked TDK SA but it needed a high bias, and a really good machine CAN be subjectively very hard to tell from a dubbed CD but I doubt the recordings would stand scrutiny against original digital recordings and reproduced at realistic levels on the very best monitors? Plus of course for Home Recording the short running time can be a nuisance.


I have two excellent cassette decks (but the Sony needs fixing) and probably over 100 cassettes and ONE day I shall get around to digitizing them!

*It is likely that wow at least could be eliminated on OR machines by some form of digital control/pilot tone system but why use a system that needs a digital 'crutch'? Just use a 'puter!


Dave.
 
I like the responses in this thread. Thank you for your thoughts and input. I know these are ancient relics.

Here are some of the recorders I use. They have complex Direct Drive Dual Capstan Mechanisms, even with some decks having gold heads. These decks have stayed in phase after restorations and mods. The heads have pressure pad lifters to mitigate scrape flutter. These decks are also hitting 0.022-0.004 WRMS. And I use Sony Super Metal Master Cassettes. They are the most advanced cassettes ever made. On the 800 series decks I changed the recording chains to match the higher end 900 series Sony Decks. Also added muting transistors to lower the noise floor of the decks. Upgrading the 4066 to the ANT4066B, and adding OPA2227P Op Amps. Adding high end Nichicon Muse Bipolar caps and jumping the respective areas to prevent overload of the signal since these decks were setup for back to back polar caps. Much more efficient and better sound

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Nice pictures.
They look like pricey cassette decks.
The little 8-pin chip is in a cheap and nasty socket though.
If they're going to use sockets, they should be gold plated turned pin.
 
Compact Discs are much more viable (at least some computers still have the ability to play them as well as any bluray/dvd player, whereas nearly no one owns a cassette deck anymore), and through services like Kunaki cds can be made for under $2 each. I'm basically a 'local internet band' and use Kunaki for cds and when they sellout I can always make more, or not.

The whole nostalgia thing will fade fast (it's already flatlined/stagnated), once people realize what shite the format is/was in the first place and run back to their superior
I dont think there is anything wrong with nostalgia. You are right of course that modern tech is better than old tech, and I agree that it can be a fashion thing with younger people... but us oldies hang on to vynil and analogue cassette tech in tandem with DAW as it keeps us feeling young and a genuine love for the old formats 😅😉👍
In the same way that I love my old Classic car, useless and time consuming compared with modern motors... but there you go 😉😅👍
 
I used to watch Pinky & The Brain.

Yes I know the limitations of the cassette format. You should consider the decks presented in this thread. They are the epitome of the peak of cassette deck technology. The Quartz Lock Direct Drive mechanisms are highly pitch accurate. Transport adjustments locked with liquid glass. Pinch rollers replaced with new rubber and brass bearings

The playback azimuth is pretty consistent on these
 
I used to watch Pinky & The Brain.

Yes I know the limitations of the cassette format. You should consider the decks presented in this thread. They are the epitome of the peak of cassette deck technology. The Quartz Lock Direct Drive mechanisms are highly pitch accurate. Transport adjustments locked with liquid glass. Pinch rollers replaced with new rubber and brass bearings

The playback azimuth is pretty consistent on these
Agreed, modern format is said to be better but to my ear all this digital recording on modern music just all seems so dynamically compressed and lacks feel, expression or any warmth to the sound, it is all just crammed into a narrow bandwith sonically. Or am I just getting old? 😅
 
Agreed, modern format is said to be better but to my ear all this digital recording on modern music just all seems so dynamically compressed and lacks feel, expression or any warmth to the sound, it is all just crammed into a narrow bandwith sonically. Or am I just getting old? 😅
I don't think any of that has to do with the format, it is a result of the production style of those using it. Many people nowadays do stuff that works against getting the more organic sound of earlier recordings: editing to the grid, pitch correction, reusing a limited selection of samples, compressing/limiting the life out of performances.

The bandwidth is not "limited" by the format.
 
I don't think any of that has to do with the format, it is a result of the production style of those using it. Many people nowadays do stuff that works against getting the more organic sound of earlier recordings: editing to the grid, pitch correction, reusing a limited selection of samples, compressing/limiting the life out of performances.

The bandwidth is not "limited" by the format.
You make a good point. I had not really thought about that. I dont know much about DAW so ok. It is about modern production values. You seem to have these rock records that have a quiet section then it goes massive rock sound but all in a narrow bandwidth. That was never done or seemed possible back in the day so I get what you are saying. It is the tech that allows that production technique to be possible now and not the fault of the modern technology. I agree and hope this makes some sort of sense? 😉👍
 
Those that love older formats should never apologize.
“I like it, period!, and I care not if you don’t.”. This should be the attitude.

Newer formats are always changing, updating etc. Are they better? Maybe, maybe not.
Why this obsession with constant upgrading? It’s almost like a fucking cult religion.
One thing is for sure, every advancement makes previous formats obsolete.

Early in the digital age I recorded a lot of synth stuff on a Commodore 64. There’s music I have on floppy discs thats forever gone.

I’ve had other computers that suddenly crashed only to lose files forever. Pictures, music, family videos. Yeah, I know, shoulda backed stuff up. Hey we’ve all been guilty of that.

Yeah there will come a time where we won’t be able to repair or find parts for our analog machines, but already they’ve been proven to have withstood the test of time. (Far better than my commodore)

How long before thumbdrives become obsolete? How long before SSD drives are obsolete.

I don’t know, but there are people vested in making that happen where we have little or no choice but to be part of the never ending upgrade.

Steve Albini, seems to like tape, says it’s the only format that lasts.

Maybe the cassette format is not up to par with the sound quality of newer formats.

But whenever I’ve been cruising down the road with the top down, cranking “Highway Star” in my vintage ride with a cassette player, I don’t give a shit. I’m having a great time!
:D
 
I don't think any of that has to do with the format, it is a result of the production style of those using it. Many people nowadays do stuff that works against getting the more organic sound of earlier recordings: editing to the grid, pitch correction, reusing a limited selection of samples, compressing/limiting the life out of performances.

The bandwidth is not "limited" by the format.
Boulder thanks, this is a lighbulb moment honestly, totally turned my thinking around
Those that love older formats should never apologize.
“I like it, period!, and I care not if you don’t.”. This should be the attitude.

Newer formats are always changing, updating etc. Are they better? Maybe, maybe not.
Why this obsession with constant upgrading? It’s almost like a fucking cult religion.
One thing is for sure, every advancement makes previous formats obsolete.

Early in the digital age I recorded a lot of synth stuff on a Commodore 64. There’s music I have on floppy discs thats forever gone.

I’ve had other computers that suddenly crashed only to lose files forever. Pictures, music, family videos. Yeah, I know, shoulda backed stuff up. Hey we’ve all been guilty of that.

Yeah there will come a time where we won’t be able to repair or find parts for our analog machines, but already they’ve been proven to have withstood the test of time. (Far better than my commodore)

How long before thumbdrives become obsolete? How long before SSD drives are obsolete.

I don’t know, but there are people vested in making that happen where we have little or no choice but to be part of the never ending upgrade.

Steve Albini, seems to like tape, says it’s the only format that lasts.

Maybe the cassette format is not up to par with the sound quality of newer formats.

But whenever I’ve been cruising down the road with the top down, cranking “Highway Star” in my vintage ride with a cassette player, I don’t give a shit. I’m having a great time!
:D
Lenny Kravitz uses a valve desk and reel to reel 2 inch 24 track recorder 😉👍👍
 
Those that love older formats should never apologize.
“I like it, period!, and I care not if you don’t.”. This should be the attitude.

Newer formats are always changing, updating etc. Are they better? Maybe, maybe not.
Why this obsession with constant upgrading? It’s almost like a fucking cult religion.
One thing is for sure, every advancement makes previous formats obsolete.

Early in the digital age I recorded a lot of synth stuff on a Commodore 64. There’s music I have on floppy discs thats forever gone.

I’ve had other computers that suddenly crashed only to lose files forever. Pictures, music, family videos. Yeah, I know, shoulda backed stuff up. Hey we’ve all been guilty of that.

Yeah there will come a time where we won’t be able to repair or find parts for our analog machines, but already they’ve been proven to have withstood the test of time. (Far better than my commodore)

How long before thumbdrives become obsolete? How long before SSD drives are obsolete.

I don’t know, but there are people vested in making that happen where we have little or no choice but to be part of the never ending upgrade.

Steve Albini, seems to like tape, says it’s the only format that lasts.

Maybe the cassette format is not up to par with the sound quality of newer formats.

But whenever I’ve been cruising down the road with the top down, cranking “Highway Star” in my vintage ride with a cassette player, I don’t give a shit. I’m having a great time!
:D
I play the Glenn Hughes and Pat Thrall album when I am out in my Jaguar XKR V8 by the coast road 😉😍👍👍
Those that love older formats should never apologize.
“I like it, period!, and I care not if you don’t.”. This should be the attitude.

Newer formats are always changing, updating etc. Are they better? Maybe, maybe not.
Why this obsession with constant upgrading? It’s almost like a fucking cult religion.
One thing is for sure, every advancement makes previous formats obsolete.

Early in the digital age I recorded a lot of synth stuff on a Commodore 64. There’s music I have on floppy discs thats forever gone.

I’ve had other computers that suddenly crashed only to lose files forever. Pictures, music, family videos. Yeah, I know, shoulda backed stuff up. Hey we’ve all been guilty of that.

Yeah there will come a time where we won’t be able to repair or find parts for our analog machines, but already they’ve been proven to have withstood the test of time. (Far better than my commodore)

How long before thumbdrives become obsolete? How long before SSD drives are obsolete.

I don’t know, but there are people vested in making that happen where we have little or no choice but to be part of the never ending upgrade.

Steve Albini, seems to like tape, says it’s the only format that lasts.

Maybe the cassette format is not up to par with the sound quality of newer formats.

But whenever I’ve been cruising down the road with the top down, cranking “Highway Star” in my vintage ride with a cassette player, I don’t give a shit. I’m having a great time!
:D
I play a bit of Glenn Hughes/Pat Thrall when I am driving along the coast road in my old V8 Jaguar XKR. Kicking 1000 Watt Harmon Kardon stereo



🤘🤘🤘😉🥰
 
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Those that love older formats should never apologize.
“I like it, period!, and I care not if you don’t.”. This should be the attitude.

Newer formats are always changing, updating etc. Are they better? Maybe, maybe not.
Why this obsession with constant upgrading? It’s almost like a fucking cult religion.
One thing is for sure, every advancement makes previous formats obsolete.

Early in the digital age I recorded a lot of synth stuff on a Commodore 64. There’s music I have on floppy discs thats forever gone.

I’ve had other computers that suddenly crashed only to lose files forever. Pictures, music, family videos. Yeah, I know, shoulda backed stuff up. Hey we’ve all been guilty of that.

Yeah there will come a time where we won’t be able to repair or find parts for our analog machines, but already they’ve been proven to have withstood the test of time. (Far better than my commodore)

How long before thumbdrives become obsolete? How long before SSD drives are obsolete.

I don’t know, but there are people vested in making that happen where we have little or no choice but to be part of the never ending upgrade.

Steve Albini, seems to like tape, says it’s the only format that lasts.

Maybe the cassette format is not up to par with the sound quality of newer formats.

But whenever I’ve been cruising down the road with the top down, cranking “Highway Star” in my vintage ride with a cassette player, I don’t give a shit. I’m having a great time!
:D
Glenn is god
 
  • Like
Reactions: RFR


Many good times have been spent driving around Topanga Canyon, ending up on the Pacific Coast highway (Los Angeles for those unfamiliar )

Music cranking, pushing down the throttle and shifting gears :D
 
Those that love older formats should never apologize.
“I like it, period!, and I care not if you don’t.”. This should be the attitude.

Newer formats are always changing, updating etc. Are they better? Maybe, maybe not.
Why this obsession with constant upgrading? It’s almost like a fucking cult religion.
One thing is for sure, every advancement makes previous formats obsolete.

Early in the digital age I recorded a lot of synth stuff on a Commodore 64. There’s music I have on floppy discs thats forever gone.

I’ve had other computers that suddenly crashed only to lose files forever. Pictures, music, family videos. Yeah, I know, shoulda backed stuff up. Hey we’ve all been guilty of that.

Yeah there will come a time where we won’t be able to repair or find parts for our analog machines, but already they’ve been proven to have withstood the test of time. (Far better than my commodore)

How long before thumbdrives become obsolete? How long before SSD drives are obsolete.

I don’t know, but there are people vested in making that happen where we have little or no choice but to be part of the never ending upgrade.

Steve Albini, seems to like tape, says it’s the only format that lasts.

Maybe the cassette format is not up to par with the sound quality of newer formats.

But whenever I’ve been cruising down the road with the top down, cranking “Highway Star” in my vintage ride with a cassette player, I don’t give a shit. I’m having a great time!
:D
Steve Vai said.... I always listen to my guitar during the final mixdown... but on this I just sat with my jaw on the floor listening to Glenn
 


Many good times have been spent driving around Topanga Canyon, ending up on the Pacific Coast highway (Los Angeles for those unfamiliar )

Music cranking, pushing down the throttle and shifting gears :D

Wish I was in LA driving my Jaguar along highway Pacific 1 instead of cold North east england ❤👍🤘
 


Many good times have been spent driving around Topanga Canyon, ending up on the Pacific Coast highway (Los Angeles for those unfamiliar )

Music cranking, pushing down the throttle and shifting gears :D

You lucky bastard! ❤😅😅🤣🤘🤘👍
 


Many good times have been spent driving around Topanga Canyon, ending up on the Pacific Coast highway (Los Angeles for those unfamiliar )

Music cranking, pushing down the throttle and shifting gears :D

When I floor her she sounds just like Steve McQueen's 68 Bullit Stang Fastback, the veggies hate me 😅
 
Wish I was in LA driving my Jaguar along highway Pacific 1 instead of cold North east england ❤👍🤘
My brother came out from the east coast once in January. I took him down PCH with the top off. He never experienced a So Cal winter. Cruising by the ocean on a warm sunny day in a 78 Porsche 911 Targa.

California living baby!

Next day he flew back East. Checked that he got home safe.
He says ,” it’s all good, but it’s minus 16 degrees here.”

I laughed. :LOL:
 
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