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Greg_L
Banned
No, I said what I meant. Are you incapable of understanding?
No, I said what I meant. Are you incapable of understanding?
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barry c
Banned
Are you capable of explaining?
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
actually I've basically said everyone's right and no one's wrong.
The absolute only thing I've argued against is the idea that anyone's opinions in this thread are definitive.
Other than that I'm perfectly interested in what you feel is required of a well-crafted song.
Yes, you've posted examples but haven't really spelled out what attributes were being displayed by them.
No matter what you think, I'm always open to other perspectives ....
Seriously, I don't feel my opinions are righter than yours ..... I just don't feel they are less right .... that's all.
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Greg_L
Banned
Not at all. Now ask me if I want to.
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barry c
Banned
actually I've basically said everyone's right and no one's wrong.
The absolute only thing I've argued against is the idea that anyone's opinions in this thread are definitive.
Other than that I'm perfectly interested in what you feel is required of a well-crafted song.
Yes, you've posted examples but haven't really spelled out what attributes were being displayed by them.
No matter what you think, I'm always open to other perspectives ....
Seriously, I don't feel my opinions are righter than yours ..... I jalso don't feel they are less right .... that's all.
This is true, I dont have a problem with you. But for thought purposes, if you were to take a songwriting class say at berkley or UCLA
or Juliard, 5 towns, whereever, do you think they will say "well, there are no good songs and no bad ones, just likes and dislikes,
Class dismissed!
Or would you expect to learn something about songwriting. I dont speak from not knowing, ive been at it along time, I dont think Im great or better than anyone, I just know that Im more informed on the subject, obviously.
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Greg_L
Banned
They wouldn't do that because they count on taking the money of clueless hacks such as yourself.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
true enough ..... they would absolutely have what they thought made up a good song.
However ..... you could go to a different college and get a different school of thought.
For instance, when I was a composition major at LSU they were a very 'legit' minded school with no appreciation of other genres .... a small amount of jazz but mostly classical. That's why my minor instrument was bassoon.
And I doubt you've done it longer than me!
(and yes, I majored in composition )
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barry c
Banned
true enough ..... they would absolutely have what they thought made up a good song.
However ..... you could go to a different college and get a different school of thought.
For instance, when I was a composition major at LSU they were a very 'legit' minded school with no appreciation of other genres .... a small amount of jazz but mostly classical. That's why my minor instrument was bassoon.
And I doubt you've done it longer than me!
(and yes, I majored in composition )
I generally dont equate "greatness" with somebody who studied music. I find it funny when people calim because they went to school for music that they are better musicians than someone who didnt, not the case.
But what they do do better is know the theory and fundamentals. A schooled musician will know everything there is to know about the theory of music, as well as chords, scales etc etc etc, but there are plenty of musicians who cant read a note of music who would make them look silly.
Alls im saying is the craft of songwriting is a real thing, every great songwriter you can name knows alot more than you think about crafting songs.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Agreed. But sometimes, this can actually be an impediment because it can prevent someone from accepting things that a "primitive" has no trouble in picking up. The vice is also versa, but it is kind of ironic that a grasp of theory and the fundamentals can sometimes actually limit scope rather than free a person to embrace the scope that exists
I think most writers at some point know about crafting songs. The issue for me is whether or not there is only one set of parameters that define a well crafted song. I think not.
The birth of new genres over the last 50 years has, in my view, blown open the older parameters of what well crafted songwriting is and this has been indivisible from the rise of recording. Few people write songs with little thought to recording them or seeing them recorded, I suspect.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
I didn't say that nor allude to any greatness of mine ...... I simply responded to:
first ..... your implication that you've been doing it longer than me (you haven't) and that you have more experience than me ( you don't for whatever that means)
and second, you're the one that made the comment that IF I went to a music school I would find ...... etc. I simply made the comment that I did go to a music school.
Both comments were directly responding to you and were mainly meant to show that we were, perhaps, kindred spirits and further the conversation .... lol ..... not to be obviously.
As for saying I'm great ..... where did you see me say that? Where?
I defy you to find such a thing.
Where did you see me say that going to school meant I was better or for that matter where did you see me say I was better than anyone at all? Where?
You're pretty funny man ..... here I am trying to have the very conversation that you claim no one will have with you and you can only do it while being insulting.
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barry c
Banned
I didn't say that nor allude to any greatness of mine ...... I simply responded to:
first ..... your implication that you've been doing it longer than me (you haven't) and that you have more experience than me ( you don't for whatever that means)
and second, you're the one that made the comment that IF I went to a music school I would find ...... etc. I simply made the comment that I did go to a music school.
Both comments were directly responding to you and were mainly meant to show that we were, perhaps, kindred spirits and further the conversation .... lol ..... not to be obviously.
As for saying I'm great ..... where did you see me say that? Where?
I defy you to find such a thing.
Where did you see me say that going to school meant I was better or for that matter where did you see me say I was better than anyone at all? Where?
You're pretty funny man ..... here I am trying to have the very conversation that you claim no one will have with you and you can only do it while being insulting.
No dude, I didnt say you said you were great, I didnt want want to come off as saying that if you studied songwriting that you are better than somebody else at songwriting, you just have more knowledge. Thats why I made the comparison.
LOL. I can be insulting, but I wasnt in this case, was making the points of schooled, verse non schooled.
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RRuskin
Rick Ruskin
How many people do you think would be interested in a song about your dirty socks?
Seafroggys
Well-known member
Weird Al is actually a decent singer
VomitHatSteve
Hat STYLE. Not contents.
Right? I was about to correct him on that. He's a very talented and versatile musician. He just applies that talent primarily to doing goofy parodies of pop songs.
DM60
Well-known member
And making money from it.
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barry c
Banned
Did I say he wasnt a talented musician? The point was he doesnt sing well, even if his voice is made up.
Even if hes not terrible, the point was bad singing is not subjective anymore when it's obviously bad to anybody.
The average Joe doesnt know about songwriting so he cant judge, but to a songwriter they can tell the same way somebody like yourself can tell these people cant sing AMERICAN IDOL -10 WORST AUDITIONS THESE GUYS SUCK - YouTube
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barry c
Banned
Which is meanigful to the conversation
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Many many millions ~ if they happened to like the song. Some would just like the song in an overall sense. Some that like lyrics might be interested on that level. Some whose sense of humour allows it might be interested. The fact remains that there are zillions of songs out there that millions of people are or have been interested in that are about all kinds of subjects.
"House of fun" by Madness sold over 200,000 copies when it was released in 1982. It was re~released 10 years later in '92 and made the charts again. It's been on a number of albums that have sold bucketloads so it's fair to say that a tremendous number of people like{d} it. I'm one of them.[video]http://www.muzu.tv/madness/house-of-fun-video/28813/[/video]
It's about a boy on his 16th birthday, now at the age of sexual consent in the UK trying to buy a packet of condoms. Some won't have a clue what it's about, some won't care and others will identify with it and dig it, in time honoured 'nose thumb' fashion.
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Greg_L
Banned
The right person could kill with a song about dirty socks.
DM60
Well-known member
Ya know, a little humility would serve you well. Juuuust sayin'