How I got a bigger kick drum sound...

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PapillonIrl

PapillonIrl

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The recorded sound of our drummers kick drum has been one of the most frustrating things about tracking since I started recording our first demos. Up until a couple of days ago I was using a Sennheiser (e602 ? the big bass drum one anyway) at an angle to the beater and about 4" back, along with a AKGC1000 back a few feet to get a boomier sound. Didn't sound great really.

Anyway apologies if this has been mentioned before, I have read a good bit about drum tracking here, and unless I wasn't paying attention I never noticed the following idea:

Loosen the skin on the bass drum LOTS. The drummer hated it 'cos his foot didn't bounce of the skin like it normally did, but I moved the Sennheise closer (about 2") over to the right of the skin almost facing the skin directly. Way bigger, a combination of "POW!" and "BOOM", rather than "pock!" and "pow!". And I could take the C1000 and use it as an overhead.

Anybody else found this ?

pAp
 
I found the exact opposite actually. I took the bass drum head off, and stuck a sofa cushion inside. The cushion stuck out just a bit, but when you put the front head back on, it held the cushion in place. On the beater side, the heads used had those removable muffler rings on it. I put the smaller diameter one in there. Also had one of those beater pads on the head. Basically we had a lot of muffling going on. Then you tune the beater head up pretty tight. The resonant head was also tight. Mad punchy tone from the kick mike right inside the hole, and the rest of the tone was picked up in the overhead. This way gave us one of those "radio friendly" kick drums, and it is nicely separated from the bass already (haven't even dicked with it yet). But I will add the following: YMMV. It all depends on what sound you're goin for after all.

Peace and chicken grease,
Mike
 
Don't forget the attack!

Heads very loose.
mic inside 2" from batter head (further for more boom)
Kick drum Dead. I mean dead! I don't care how you do it; I use an ultra hi tech piece of equipment called a blanket.
EQ is how you dial the kick into the "Style" you want (Jazz to metal) for real aggressive boost 800hz cut 300hz add a touch of 100hz
The mid-High frequency is where you get the sound, the low is feel. Attack, attack, attack! You want Big? Don't forget Attack! Cut 300hz unless you are doing old jazz that's the sloppy range.


I used to think it was all compression…. I have learned to love my eq.

I use an AKG D-112 on the Kick. Love it.
 
I find that one of the biggest problems I have when recording drummers is that they try to fit a mattress into their kickdrum, fact of the matter is that you are only trying to dampen the sound, and something light (like a T-Shirt) will do the job and not kill the sound. Just so long as whatever you put in there touches the front and back skin, it will dampen it sufficiently
`El Linko
 
I gotta agree .....AKG D112 on kickers is great, Im not really a fan of the Sennheiser E602 on kick, but I own one, and think that there is NO BETTER MIC (that I have used) for overdriven Bass guitar
 
Agreed...I have used the Sennheiser on bass cabs and it does sound great. My local music shop guy trusts me enough to let me borrow stock and try it out for a couple of weeks, but he never seems to have many decent mics in stock. The e602 was the only one available that seemed to suit my purpose at the time and I bought it. Could you describe the differance between this mic and the D112 ?

pAp.
 
TRY THIS

I have been recording drums at home for years and have found that using less muff and a tight batter head works best.

Also try removing the front head, and using someting like your pillow inside (put something heavy on it so it stays put) put the mic inside the drum about 2-4" away from beater. this will give you a good boomy sound.

If you can, like others have said, use a pair of mics. one close for attack and one just outside the drum for more boom. Try changing EQ until it sounds good.

Beau
 
kick compresson?

Kick is the most frustrating thing to get on tape. Do you fellows use compression while tracking? I used to,now I do not. I may compress and little after. For me a Sennheiser 421 is nice, An EV RE 20 is very good as well as the 112.The drummers kick sound is everything.I 've had guys say" but this kit sounds great when I playout,the PA guys love these drums or this kick as it is" Well I say,we are not in a club and recording is completly different than a club in a lot of respects. Snares' seem to be the easy drum!
 
I used to sit with a kick drum for hours trying to get it to sound good, But my mistake was trying to make it sound like a certain kick on a certain album. The thing I never realized was that I was using muffling techniques to get a short "THUD" sound, and when I layered other instruments next to the drums, they covered up the decay of the kick, taking it from a "THUD" to almost a bassy "smack" sound, so to speak. After trying to fix it through EQing with no success, I took out some of the muffling and recorded a "boomy" bass drum. Suddenly when placed into the mix I found the "THUD" I was looking for. Now I am a firm believer of the "less is more" idea.
 
An unusual technique was just used on my kit and I loved the sound. He put a Sennenhiser 421 run through neves on the hole of my kick, then he made a little "cave" out of pillows around the front of the drum, and an AKG C12 tube through Hardy Pres about 2 feet away from the hole of the kick (so everything is under the pillows). It was amazing he got all the punch from the 421 and all the tone from the C12. Granted it's something ridiculous like a $10,000 recording chain, but if you've got the gear, I highly reccomend it.
 
Yeah,over $10,000 worth of eqiup. actually. The "cave" trick is not new,Guys have been using a kick shell and doing the same thing for a while. Sometimes it time to say "drum module"
 
PapillonIrl said:
Up until a couple of days ago I was using a Sennheiser (e602 ? the big bass drum one anyway) at an angle to the beater and about 4" back, along with a AKGC1000 back a few feet to get a boomier sound. Didn't sound great really.

Click to expand...

Don't you think its possible that you were getting some phase cancellation by putting two mics on the kick. How far back was the C1000? That could have been your problem all along. Less IS more.
 
Gnarled,Try puting the mic about 4to 5 " away from the beater head,same height as the beater but 2 or 3 inches to either side of the beater. Point the mic directly at the head not off axis,loosedn up the batter head and take of the front head.
 
jmorris said:
Gnarled,Try puting the mic about 4to 5 " away from the beater head,same height as the beater but 2 or 3 inches to either side of the beater. Point the mic directly at the head not off axis,loosedn up the batter head and take of the front head.
Click to expand...

Not sure how that relates to my post, but OK. :confused: ;)

I was just trying to make the comment that 2 mics on kick could be a big problem unless you are really careful about placement.
 
Loosening the skin sounds like the wrong thing to do, but if you get better results then that's got to be the best thing for you.

Personally it wasn't until I tightened the beater skin that the sound improved. To get more 'slap' (though not to get it like some shitty 1980s pop track) I taped an old credit card to the skin just behind where the beater hits. Using a wooden beater also improved the sound.

However, it is the EQ that makes all the difference. Recorded drums are supposed to be 'big' on most rock/pop tracks. You are making a fairly artificial sound anyway, so go for the EQ in a big way - boost at around 80hz start cutting the mids, then boost at 1-2khz (gets the hit). You have to experiment, but this has worked wonders for me. It also helps to have a good microphone-I use the AKG D112
 
opps!!

No,it does not apply to your post Gnarled,I read the wrong name..I go too fast at times. I meant Tabla1...Jeppo! As far as loosening up the heads,I understand that you think it would not sound cool,but it does for my kit. It may verywell differ in ever kit. I spent a good 2 hours one day with just the kick as I said....tight..tighter..oh.. too tight! Then loosened her up, more, more,then it was ah! just right. The sound I'm getting is not 80's at all. It has a good firm thud with a nice click.Instead of a credit card,dont they make a thing for that...at least I thought my drummer told me they do. It would be fun to be able to sample our kick sounds threw the computor eh? Who knows how to do that??? Get a clue from everyone as to what really sounds good.
 
More click...........

Yeah you're right. There is a click pad you can buy, though there's nothing like a bit of improvisation!
 
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