How does it sound ? Help a newby...

TalismanRich

Well-known member
I still hear a boominess in the lower register. It seems to be centered around 150-200Hz. I would drop it down about 2dB to smooth it out.

The bigger issue (if this is supposed to be a commercial release) is the noise at the beginning and end. I hear creaking chairs and moving instruments at both ends, especially in the fadeout. I don't know if it's from the guitar track or the cello track, but it should be cleaned up if possible.
 

rob aylestone

Well-known member
Why didn't you add this to the other topic - people could hear your progress then?

It's not ready to distribute yet. I wondering if your monitoring system is bass light, so you are using eq, that while OK on your system is boosting it to excess for us? The cello is very, very 'dark', and neither it, or the guitar is the focus of the piece. The two, when they play in a similar register blur together and you cannot separate them in your head. At the end, the room sound suddenly becomes very obvious. Are you using a compressor and it has been clapping the volume and then suddenly releases. If you want - send me the untreated, unprocessed stuff as you recorded and I'll have a go to see how well they blend. Soundlcloud link in a message would do. If I listen, and EQ and process as if I'd recorded it, I'll then send you that back and you can compare the two? If you want, drop me a message. The room noises really need sorting because they spoil it.

So - I'm guessing a bass light monitor system and a compressor turned up far, far too much.
 

TalismanRich

Well-known member
Gongli, was that mix in mono? It would help if you pan the 2 tracks 100% left and right. That way we can separate the tracks and adjust individually. Once adjusted, they can be mixed back to a normal mix.
 

Chili

Site Moderator
Moved thread to MP3 Clinic where it belongs.

In the future, when seeking comments on a mix, please start the thread in the MP3 clinic. If this is a follow on iteration of a previous mix, then keep it all in one thread so others can see the continuity.

Thanks.
 

toad_uk

Member
A nice piece. I would just reiterate what has been said above. Not extra helpful, but another opinion for what its worth. Noise is always a problem when recording acoustic instruments, I often underestimate how long to sit quiet before starting and leave at the end before moving about, and then have a 'doh' moment when I listen back.

Personally, the ambiance or space doesn't seem quite right. If you don't have a great acoustic space I think it's better to close mic and use a reverb or ambiance plugin.

Just my thoughts :thumbs up:
 

TalismanRich

Well-known member
Agreed, Toad. If the opportunity is there to rerecord, it might be the best option. Optimize the micing, stay quiet for about 5 secs AFTER everything is finished and faded, etc. I used to hate redoing what I thought was a de3cent take except for a few "things". Now, I find its best sometimes to just set it aside and start from scratch.

On the other hand, sometimes its a "work with what I've got" situation. I don't know if its the situation here. That can be tricky but its amazing what some of the tools available can do. Listening to the recording, I kind of like the acoustics. It has a certain realism that is often missing in stuff that is pristinely recorded. Call it the classical equivalent of "punk", raw and real.

Those are the decisions Gongli will have to make.
 

rob aylestone

Well-known member
I've had a listen to the unprocessed track, and to be frank, there's not huge amounts of processing anyway - but all the energy is between 150-200Hz - a huge bell curve type of sound that masks the guitar and makes the cello boomy. Trouble is, after I EQ'd it to my taste, I suspect it won't sound like he likes, and has got used to. It's perfectly salvageable though.
 

Bruthish

Hair Metal Roxx!
Beautiful piece of music....but sounds like you stuck a mic (or phone?) in front of the instrumentalists. You get the ambience of the room, but its not really a good ambience. So I guess the question is what do yo mean by "send to a distributor"? Are you planning on selling this or is it just a useful tool for others to hear that you can play? Near professional quality or just a demo of you abilities? If you want pro then I agree with others in saying, better mic'ing and editing and also multi-tracking if that's possible.
 

gongli

New member
Beautiful piece of music....but sounds like you stuck a mic (or phone?) in front of the instrumentalists. You get the ambience of the room, but its not really a good ambience. So I guess the question is what do yo mean by "send to a distributor"? Are you planning on selling this or is it just a useful tool for others to hear that you can play? Near professional quality or just a demo of you abilities? If you want pro then I agree with others in saying, better mic'ing and editing and also multi-tracking if that's possible.

I am eventually shooting for pro distribution in sites like spotify and Amazon Music, when I have pro quality recording...I am just a beginner in recording so I need all the help you guys can give me - truly appreciate it all! I can't get there without you guys, although I am reading on the subject...
 

gongli

New member
Gongli, was that mix in mono? It would help if you pan the 2 tracks 100% left and right. That way we can separate the tracks and adjust individually. Once adjusted, they can be mixed back to a normal mix.

It was mixed in stereo, but would you have mixed in mono, although I have stereo XY mic recording configuration (and a mono closeup mic)?

I am a beginner so I didn't know what to do - either stereo or mono. I have Fabfilter so I can mix in either, if you tell me which is better, with my microphone setup.

Here is a link to all 4 tracks (center panning) - if you have the time, please mix it and send me the result track.

Thanks so much for helping me out here! Truly appreciate it...

No doubt it would help me get a near professional final mix for my release.
 

gongli

New member
Why didn't you add this to the other topic - people could hear your progress then?

It's not ready to distribute yet. I wondering if your monitoring system is bass light, so you are using eq, that while OK on your system is boosting it to excess for us? The cello is very, very 'dark', and neither it, or the guitar is the focus of the piece. The two, when they play in a similar register blur together and you cannot separate them in your head. At the end, the room sound suddenly becomes very obvious. Are you using a compressor and it has been clapping the volume and then suddenly releases. If you want - send me the untreated, unprocessed stuff as you recorded and I'll have a go to see how well they blend. Soundlcloud link in a message would do. If I listen, and EQ and process as if I'd recorded it, I'll then send you that back and you can compare the two? If you want, drop me a message. The room noises really need sorting because they spoil it.

So - I'm guessing a bass light monitor system and a compressor turned up far, far too much.

You are absolutely right about light monitor system and a compressor misuse - I don't know what I am doing with compressor and I just used one of the setting in Fabfilter (classic setting). I am trying to educate my self in it by reading, but what you all offer here is invaluable - actually hearing the improved tracks...

My mic has a dark sound (Oktava MK-319) - I like the sound but is it too dark for cello ? (The instrument already had a rather dark quality to it).

How can I make it less dark? EQ the upper register?

I also have a brighter sounding mic - Studio Project C3. Should I try that?

Also, you mentioned that neither is the focus of the piece, and they play in a similar register - how can I solve this in a mixes? Use panning? How about delay in the guitar?

I always was curious as to how to bring up the main instrument to the foreground, and leave the accompaniment in the background, other than using volume to do it...Does the compression help in this? Please educate me on this...

Here are the untreated 4 tracks:

Separate Hymn 73 by gongli | Free Listening on SoundCloud

Thanks again for your time and expertise!
 

gongli

New member
Why didn't you add this to the other topic - people could hear your progress then?

It's not ready to distribute yet. I wondering if your monitoring system is bass light, so you are using eq, that while OK on your system is boosting it to excess for us? The cello is very, very 'dark', and neither it, or the guitar is the focus of the piece. The two, when they play in a similar register blur together and you cannot separate them in your head. At the end, the room sound suddenly becomes very obvious. Are you using a compressor and it has been clapping the volume and then suddenly releases. If you want - send me the untreated, unprocessed stuff as you recorded and I'll have a go to see how well they blend. Soundlcloud link in a message would do. If I listen, and EQ and process as if I'd recorded it, I'll then send you that back and you can compare the two? If you want, drop me a message. The room noises really need sorting because they spoil it.

So - I'm guessing a bass light monitor system and a compressor turned up far, far too much.

You are absolutely right about light monitor system and a compressor misuse - I don't know what I am doing with compressor and I just used one of the setting in Fabfilter (classic setting). I am trying to educate my self in it by reading, but what you all offer here is invaluable - actually hearing the improved tracks...

My mic has a dark sound (Oktava MK-319) - I like the sound but is it too dark for cello ? (The instrument already had a rather dark quality to it).

How can I make it less dark? EQ the upper register?

I also have a brighter sounding mic - Studio Project C3. Should I try that?

Also, you mentioned that neither is the focus of the piece, and they play in a similar register - how can I solve this in a mixes? Use panning? How about delay in the guitar?

I always was curious as to how to bring up the main instrument to the foreground, and leave the accompaniment in the background, other than using volume to do it...Does the compression help in this? Please educate me on this...

Here are the untreated 4 tracks:

Separate Hymn 73 by gongli | Free Listening on SoundCloud

Thanks again for your time and expertise!
 

gongli

New member
Thanks a lot for your mix, Rob!

What did you do to it to make it sound better?

I sure would like to know...
 

rob aylestone

Well-known member
All I did was a very gentle reduction in the 200Hz region, but with a wide Q so it tamed perhaps 125 through to 350 or so, and just tweaked the level to leave some of the warmth, but then I increased the HF in a gentle slope starting at around 3K, which brought out the harmonics on the guitar but didn't do much to the cello.

I have a couple of original 319 Octavas and wouldn't call them 'dark', but 'warm'. I use them with few reservation on choral and orchestral, my double bass and pretty much anything. The thing to remember is that the sparkle up the top might need adding, and the murky stuff at the bottom removing. EQ wise, just gentle slopes, nothing looking like mountain ranges!
The version I did is here - I messed up the URL

cellotest - mild EQ
 

gongli

New member
All I did was a very gentle reduction in the 200Hz region, but with a wide Q so it tamed perhaps 125 through to 350 or so, and just tweaked the level to leave some of the warmth, but then I increased the HF in a gentle slope starting at around 3K, which brought out the harmonics on the guitar but didn't do much to the cello.

I have a couple of original 319 Octavas and wouldn't call them 'dark', but 'warm'. I use them with few reservation on choral and orchestral, my double bass and pretty much anything. The thing to remember is that the sparkle up the top might need adding, and the murky stuff at the bottom removing. EQ wise, just gentle slopes, nothing looking like mountain ranges!
The version I did is here - I messed up the URL

cellotest - mild EQ


You have MK-319 too? That's neat. Would you record cello, piano, guitar with bass roll off on the mic?

I am gonna try what you did with other similar tracks (EQ).

Thanks again for helping me sincerely...
 

rob aylestone

Well-known member
Personally, no - I'd record it as it is. I often use the roll off live - when recording or doing PA with a low register instrument - double bass, Bari sax etc, but recording only means I'll deal with it afterwards. However, where are you putting it? The very mellow tone suggests close to the body of the cello. Have you tried just backing the distance off a few inches - it makes quite a difference.
 

TalismanRich

Well-known member
Gongli,

Here is a mix I made starting with the 4 raw tracks you posted. One thing that I found was that flipping the phase on the X.Y tracks relative to the close up tracks reduced the boominess that I was hearing. I also moved the guitar to be slightly to the right in the space, keeping the cello centered. I also moved the X/Y a bit back in the mix to give the close track a bit more weight.

I tried a few different mixes, throwing them on the stereo upstairs to see how they sounded there (Vandersteens really image well), and this seemed to be the most natural sounding mix of the three that I made.

Hymn - T-Rich mix

Hopefully you like the balance on this one.
 
Top