How does diaphragm size/polar pattern relate to mic applications?

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Wow, I'd love to record you guys. Without hearing you or seeing your staging, that's a difficult question to answer. If I just had two mics, I'd probably start with X/Y or an NOS pair and adjust the spacing till the middle sounded right to me. If I were to add 2 mics, it would be for the soloist and the vocal percussionist next. Finally (assuming 8 tracks), four more mics to spot each section.

Two mics are all you need usually, but you really hafta get the angle and distance just right to get the full stereo spread, and the right balance of natural reverb. I'd get a "gofer" to move the mics around while I listened to the sound. looking for the "sweet spot" where it all comes together.
 
Wow, tekker,

Great job! I just downloaded and read the whole thing - almost 1/2 meg worth. It's a pretty amazing thread, and I wanna thank everybody that contributed some insightful questions and answers to the thread. We all did good, gang. :) :D
 
Well I for one am glad you didn't learn that before hand.

:D :D

-tkr

Wahoo, I just got the 10,000th view!!
Don't I get a prize or something?
:D
 
Hi,
I was wondering if Harvey or anyone else has used the Neumann
KMS105,I have a chance to get a good deal on one.
Thinking about trying it on vocals,with another mic on acoustic to record both at the same time.

Thanks
Pete
 
Please tell me someone has heard this mic
I'm probably going to pick it up this weekend and really need some input.
Comon Guys,help me out.

Pete
 
mixit,
Thanks for the link I'll definatly check it out.

Harvey,
Thanks once again for your input,I think I'll give it a try.
I havn't heard anything bad about it,and if it dosn't work out I'll have a great stage mic and I can start saving for a good figure 8!

Thanks again,
Pete
 
I don't see this thread on the list of topics for the microphone area of the forum anymore. I guess that means the thread is officially "closed" - I hope nobody minds if I chime in and bring the beast back to life for a moment longer. I can't believe this increcible thread totally slipped under my radar - I just finished reading the whole thing "cover to cover" in one sitting. I can't remember the last time I learned so much in so little time. I hope I can actually retain some of it. :)

Harvey, you have me absolutely amazed. I wish I could have had you as a teacher.

I'm not sure of my post will make this thread "pop" back into existance or what, but if you see this, I have a couple of questions - if you have the time, of course.

First off: I'm a home recordist on an extremely tight budget (aren't we all?). I've used nothing but a Shure SM-57 to record all of my tracks, since the very beginning. I'm getting to the point though, where I really hate the way my vocals sound with the mic. I've been working for about six months on my first EP, but with the vocals I've really done little more than record scratch takes for each song - I've been putting off the final vocals for as long as possible, because I'm just dreading the point where I'm going to have to record my vocals and actually keep them.

Erm, I'm hoping it's the mic, anyway, and not me. :( I'm not the best singer in the world, but I also know that there have been a lot of vocalists with poorer technique than mine, whose vocals sound far better on record. I guess part of me is imagining this "perfect" microphone that would actually make recording vocals fun again, kind of like the hallowed old acoustic gutiars that seem to make music when you just touch a fret.

But I don't really have a wide knowledge of microphones - I just picked the SM-57 because everyone told me to. That was a good three or four years ago. :) Now I understand WHAT makes it good, but I don't have a varied knowledge of what else is out there. For a guy like me who can't really say, "Oh, mic x? Well, that sounds very y, and really z, and a, b, and c are good examples or recordings that use it," how am I supposed to know what to look for in a new microphone? I could possibly at least find a store with a liberal return policy if I just knew where to begin. For instance, would it be possible to listen to a recording made with an industry standard mic (such as the SM-57) and say, "You know, you might give this mic a shot. I think it might suit the particular character of your voice" - or does it not really work that way?

My other question is pretty random. You may not know the answer, but you seem to be a veritable fountain of random information, so I'll take my chances. I realize that there aren't a lot of people left who still like this band, but Duran Duran are one of my biggest influences. Would you happen to know what vocal mic Simon LeBon was using during the "Rio" era? I'm thinking it must be the same microphone across the whole album, because that effect is there on every song. Although I'm not enthralled with the sound on that album as a whole, I really like the way the vocals sound. I wouldn't want to sound like that all the time, but if I could figure it out, it would be a great new color to add to my "arsenal" (which is currently sadly lacking in variety).

I've even uploaded a few short 30-50 second mp3 clips to my webspace, to give you (and any other interested parties) an idea of what I'm talking about:





Clip two is about one megabyte, and the other two are 700k.

You may have to right-click and select "save as", and save the mp3s to your hard drive before they'll play properly.

If anyone has any ideas as to how this sound was acheived, I'd love to hear them.

My sincere thanks if you have the time to get to these questions. If not, that's fine - I already feel a heck of a lot smarter today than I did yesterday. :D

I'm off to get a look at that website of yours.
 
Search Colin Thurston...

Colin Thurston was the producer for the first 2 Duran Duran records, along with virtually every other huge english act around the late 70's early 80's.

Based on that pre-digital effects era, you are going to be dealing with high end analog equipment and engineers who knew how to use a room/studio to get a good sound and probably alot of those "bowie" tricks...


some great records he did:

http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/results.asp?ctr=174834


nP
 
Duran Duran's "Rio" was done at Sir George Martin's Air Studios, London. You could go to http://airstudios.com and see if someone there has the tracking session sheets. If that doesn't work, here's a list of the mics they have (and it's a safe bet they probably used one of these):

AKG
1 CK5 (capsule for 451)
2 C12VR (reissue of classic valve)
9 C414 (large diaphragm condenser)
3 C460 (condenser)
8 D451 (cardiod condenser)
2 D12 (cardiod dymanic)
2 D112 (cardiod dymanic "the egg")
1 D19C (cardiod dynamic)
8 D190E (cardiod dynamic)
2 D202ES (cardiod dynamic)
1 D224ES (cardiod dynamic)
2 D25 (cardiod dynamic)

Beyer
2 M160 (hyper cardiod double ribbon)
2 M201 (hyper cardiod dynamic)
2 M260N (hyper cardiod ribbon)

Blue
4 Blue Bottle (multi-capsule tube mic system)
4 B4 Capsule (perspex sphere pressure omni)

Coles
11 4038 (classic BBC ribbon)

B+K
2 4003 (omni condenser)
2 4007 (omni condenser)
2 4011 (cardiod condenser)

Crown
2 PZM (pressure zone effect)

EV
1 RE15 (cardiod dynamic)
3 RE20 (cardiod dynamic)
1 PL80 (cardiod dynamic)

Manley
2 Valve

Nakamichi
1 DM1000

Neumann
6 U47 fet (large diaphragm)
3 M49 (classic large diaphragm valve)
3 M50 (classic spherical omni valve)
3 M150 (spherical omni M50 reissue)
4 TLM50 (spherical omni)
5 U67 (classic large diaphragm valve)
2 KM83 (minature omni fet 80 series)
9 KM84 (minature cardiod fet 80 series)
4 KM86 (minature selectable fet 80 series)
1 KM184 (minature cardiod fet 180 series)
14 U87 (large diaphragm selectable pattern)
6 U87Ai (large diaphragm selectable pattern)
2 U89 (large diaphragm 5 polar patterns)
6 TLM103 (large diaphragm cardiod)
5 M147 (large diaghragm cardiod tube)
5 TLM170 (large diaphragm fet 100 series)

Pearl
1 DC21 ()

Reslo
1 RV ("the bullet")

Sanken
2 CU41 (cardiod condenser)

Schoeps
12 CMC5 (condensor microphone body)
6 CMC6 (condensor microphone body)
3 MK2H (omni capsule)
3 MK2S (omni capsule)
7 MK4 (cardiod capsule)
9 MK21 (wide cardiod capsule)
2 MK21H (wide cardiod capsule)
3 MK41 (hyper-cardiod capsule)
1 Schoeps Stereo (Dual Capsule Microphone)

Sennheiser
14 421 (cardiod dynamic tom mic)
3 441 (similar to 421)
2 MKH20 (omni condenser)
6 MKH40 (cardiod condenser)
2 MKH50 (hyper-cardiod condenser)
4 MKH800 (extended response switchable condenser)

Shure
10 SM57 (classic instrument cardiod dynamic)
1 SM58 (classic vocal cardiod dynamic)
1 SM98 (minature super cardiod condenser)

Sony
3 C8000 (modern valve)


If I had to bet money on which mic he used (without any more information), I'd bet Simon used one of their 5 Neumann U-67s.
 
*sheesh* I wonder if they have a job opening as the guy who dusts their SIX U47:s.

Harvey, I have a question for you:
I was wondering, suppose you have a pair of subcardioids like the 603:s (which I don't since Marshall lack distribution up here in the cold North). Anyway. Suppose you'd like their polar pattern to be a bit more narrow, for instance if you want to x/y mic with them, or if you are trying record a guitar while the guitar player is singing into another mic at the same time. Could it then be a good idea to tape some foam rubber directly onto the mic, forming a small tunnel around the diaphragm, but of course leaving the front opening uncovered?

I've seen some mics that come with an optional pipe, about a foot long, which you can attach to the mic in order to make it very directional. ALso the AKG c1000 comes with a small plastic cover that you can put over the diaphragm to change the polar pattern from cardioid to hyper. I was just thinking that this idea may be applicable to other mics. What do you think?

Cheers
/Henrik
 
If you block the side vents of a cardioid, you get .......

...... an omni mic. Ever wonder why a singer gets feedback when he/she cups the mic? Now you know.

Adding mechanical stuff can work, but it's really hit and miss without proper equipment to see what you're doing to the response. Chances are you'l get some resonant peaks that are more directional.
 
AH, of course! I should have been able to understand that by myself after reading this thread.

A cardiod with side vents covered makes an omni. I'll write it a hundred times.

/Henrik
 
WOW what a great read! Plus a Question for Harvey

I know this is going to be off the subject but the section on drums prompted this question that I've never been able to get a satisfactory answer to. Do smaller drums record better than larger dia. ones. Part of this is due to alway having drums in the studio that are of the more traditional (larger size). I continue to hear and read this but would like some insight to this issue.

I have a small studio doing the light contemporary Folk sort of stuff. I have a great in house drummer (nephew) but he also plays out very actively. That means his kit travels a lot and takes a beating. I would like to purchase a kit for the studio and have been having trouble pulling the trigger partialy due to this one question. Drum kits are a hard one to "try before you buy" kind of purchase. At least for recording.

I figure having a studio kit would make getting reproducable results easier.

We all have our areas of expertise. Mine is electronics and not percussion.

Can you offer any insight to this issue?

Thanks

Don Goguen
Folk Cafe Productions
Folkcafe.com
 
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