How do YOU use your external hard drive?

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HapiCmpur

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The tech gurus at Steven Slate drums have told me twice now that I'll get better results if I add an external hard drive to my system and store all my samples on it. That doesn't make sense to me, but I'm new to DAW so I thought I'd run this idea by those of you who are more experienced.

It seems to me that loops and samples ought to be stored on the same drive as the sequencer that's utilizing them, and for most people, that's probably an internal drive. An external drive would be a good place to store your works-in-progress and your finished projects so that they're not taking up valuable space in your main processing environment.

Am I wrong about this? Why might the techies at SSD think it's better to store samples externally? How have you organized your drives for work and for storage?
 
You OS and apps need to do a lot of housekeeping work.
Anything that pulls the read/write arm off of what it's doing and to another part of the disk interrupts the flow of data.
(even with ssd's your drive can only do one thing at a time)
You don't want ANYTHING mucking with the smooth flow of data while recording/mixing.
If the interruption of data overflows the data buffers you'll get clicks, pops or total dropouts in the sound.
A smooth uninterrupted flow of data is your goal.

The best setup for ANY daw is:

a) OS, apps and plugins on boot drive
b) Sample libraries on a separate drive
c) audio tracks and projects on a third drive
 
Maybe the problem here is that I don't know the difference between a sample and a plug-in.

My sequencer (Pro Tools) needs to draw info from plug-ins in real time, so I understand why plug-ins need to be on the boot drive. But aren't the drum loops and samples in SSD4 also needed by the sequencer in real time? They're inserted into my sessions just like plug-ins. Won't it interrupt the flow of recording and playback when the computer has to go looking for those samples on an external drive?
 
I keep the operating daw on the main drive, all the plugins, samples and music on a seperate drive and then a third drive that backs everything up. You want to keep your operating drive as clean as possible
Tim
 
An external drive would be a good place to store your works-in-progress and your finished projects so that they're not taking up valuable space in your main processing environment.
Drive space isn't as big an issue as it used to be. Granted, solid state drives are often smaller than we'd like, but generally storage space isn't the concern; It's read/write speed.

But aren't the drum loops and samples in SSD4 also needed by the sequencer in real time? They're inserted into my sessions just like plug-ins. Won't it interrupt the flow of recording and playback when the computer has to go looking for those samples on an external drive?

Quite the opposite. The fact that your samples are on a separate drive means you're taking a load off the main drive.
The system drive is always working and always has a job to do, even when you're idleing.

When you ask it to look for audio files or samples, you're making it take breaks from the constant reading and writing that it always does to keep the machine ticking over.
The limitation is (usually) with the hard drive rather than the chipset, so having two drives allows you to read and write twice as much stuff at any given time.


Where you store the plugins themselves isn't really important. I keep them on the system drive where it likes them to be for simplicity.
It's mass audio that's the problem, and that includes sample libraries and current session folders.
 
You OS and apps need to do a lot of housekeeping work.
Anything that pulls the read/write arm off of what it's doing and to another part of the disk interrupts the flow of data.
(even with ssd's your drive can only do one thing at a time)
You don't want ANYTHING mucking with the smooth flow of data while recording/mixing.
If the interruption of data overflows the data buffers you'll get clicks, pops or total dropouts in the sound.
A smooth uninterrupted flow of data is your goal.

I've never seen my computer doing more than about one block read or write per second beyond what a foreground app is explicitly telling it to do. If your DAW is so sensitive to latency that such a negligible amount of activity is going to cause a problem, you're way beyond screwed.

If your computer is significantly more active than that while idle, it usually means that your computer is doing background paging while idle, in which case you have no prayer of being able to do audio recording even if you add an external drive. Add RAM instead.

Bear in mind that data flow from the hard drive is anything but smooth. A typical DAW reads several megabytes at a time from each track, because that results in the best I/O throughput. So it might, for example, read ten, twenty, even thirty seconds of audio from each track that you're simultaneously playing. If the DAW doesn't suck, it then requests the next chunk of tens of seconds well in advance of when it needs it.

And VIs typically keep all of the current sample set in RAM. There's no way that they could realistically load sample data from disk quickly enough to react to a MIDI key down event. Bear in mind that unlike audio tracks (where the DAW can pre-load the data ahead of time), a VI learns what note it is going to play approximately when it is time to play that note. If you aren't playing the VI live, it gets the command a few milliseconds ahead (as requested by the VI) to allow it time to handle the effects processing and buffering, but VI latency has to be an order of magnitude smaller than hard drive latency (or more). The data has to be there in memory and ready to play, not coming back from the disk tens of milliseconds later.

Hard drives cannot react to requests in anything approaching real time. The minimum average round-trip latency for a 7200 RPM drive is somewhere around 5 milliseconds (and realistically, the average latency is longer than that). That's an eternity. If you tried to play five notes at once that required the VI to load five different samples, you'd have to wait a whopping 25-50 milliseconds (an audible delay) if your VI loaded the sample data from disk on demand. That's just not realistic. Hence, your VIs prefetch all of the samples that they are likely to need during a given playback session and store them in RAM. They should not be hitting the disk at all during playback.

So unless your equipment is ancient or your DAW sucks, glitches in playback are never caused by disk performance problems. A modern HD will handle hundreds of simultaneous tracks at typical sample rates without a hiccup. Glitches in playback are typically caused by either interrupt latency (caused by poorly written device drivers) or by a poorly written DAW that doesn't pre-fill its buffers far enough ahead of time.


The best setup for ANY daw is:

a) OS, apps and plugins on boot drive
b) Sample libraries on a separate drive
c) audio tracks and projects on a third drive

The best setup involves one or more SATA-attached drive for everything. An external USB drive will almost invariably hurt more than it helps because USB's high latency more than exceeds the latency improvement you get from having the data on a separate drive. An eSATA drive would theoretically help in the unlikely event that you are working with a high enough track count for disk performance to matter. Again, though, unless you're approaching 90 tracks (@24/96) on a modern laptop drive or 150 tracks (@24/96) on a modern desktop drive, you are almost certainly not I/O bound.

Oh, and to answer the original question, I use an external drive for backup purposes. That's what external drives do well. If I absolutely can't squeeze enough storage into a particular box for what I'm doing (e.g. when doing lots of multichannel video work), then I add additional external eSATA drives, but I do that only if I can't buy a big enough internal drive to hold everything. Given a choice, additional internal drives almost invariably provide better performance with fewer problems, assuming comparable SATA controllers (unless your computer uses a laptop drive internally, in which case an eSATA drive will be faster, if only because it would typically be a desktop drive instead of a laptop drive).
 
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The best setup involves one or more SATA-attached drive for everything. An external USB drive will almost invariably hurt more than it helps because USB's high latency more than exceeds the latency improvement you get from having the data on a separate drive. An eSATA drive would theoretically help in the unlikely event that you are working with a high enough track count for disk performance to matter. Again, though, unless you're approaching 90 tracks (@24/96) on a modern laptop drive or 150 tracks (@24/96) on a modern desktop drive, you are almost certainly not I/O bound.

I think this is too black and white.
You may well have correctly stated the maximum track capabilities of a 5400 or 7200rpm drive, but saying that an external USB drive will hurt more than help just isn't true, in my experience.

At uni I had exceeded my computers capabilities with several sessions.
It was a core2duo w/4gb ram and internal 5400hdd.

I had limitied gear over there, so I just bought a cheap USB caddy and plugged in a second 5400 drive externally.
Once I moved my work to the new drive, every session opened and ran flawlessly from that point on.

That's the point with using your internal drive for audio. Out of context track count statements become irrelevant because that internal drive is already doing plenty of work just running the OS and DAW.
 
So unless your equipment is ancient or your DAW sucks, glitches in playback are never caused by disk performance problems. A modern HD will handle hundreds of simultaneous tracks at typical sample rates without a hiccup. Glitches in playback are typically caused by either interrupt latency (caused by poorly written device drivers) or by a poorly written DAW that doesn't pre-fill its buffers far enough ahead of time.

I think you missed the point and are trying too hard.

Your OS and programs on the boot drive are doing LOTS of things.
Open your system manager and look at all the stuff that's running.
Most of that will have a higher priority than a recording app.

You DO NOT want streaming audio data off the main drive while there are interruptions from all the other stuff going on. Period.
Yes you can often get away with it but this is a game of getting things to run as smooooth as possible.

What I outlined with 3 drives will let you record even with sub-1ghz ancient systems like I started out on.
Drives are SO cheap now that cutting corners on a couple of $60 drives is just silly.

Let your system breathe and worry about other things...
 
Your OS and programs on the boot drive are doing LOTS of things.

No, they really aren't. There are a lot of processes idling, but they're sitting in a sleep state, waiting to be woken up by the kernel when there is work to be done.


Open your system manager and look at all the stuff that's running.
Most of that will have a higher priority than a recording app.

That's not correct. In fact, it's exactly backwards. Background processes typically have idle priority, which is the very bottom priority, only running when nothing else needs cycles, give or take. Audio processing threads run at realtime priority, which is higher priority than anything else on the system except for kernel code (drivers, etc.).

Now admittedly, the app does have to load the data from the disk into buffers far enough ahead of time so that the realtime audio thread has data to play back, and that code isn't running at realtime priority, but it also doesn't need to be. Any modern disk can provide much more throughput than an audio app actually needs.


You DO NOT want streaming audio data off the main drive while there are interruptions from all the other stuff going on. Period.

Modern desktop hard drives read 100+ megabytes per second. That's 409 simultaneous tracks at 96 kHz, 24-bit. What you're saying hasn't been true in practice for well over a decade. Even ten years ago, a new desktop hard drive could handle well over a hundred simultaneous tracks. Unless your system is panic swapping continuously, you aren't realistically going to have enough disk activity from other sources to cause problems with audio playback.


Yes you can often get away with it but this is a game of getting things to run as smooooth as possible.

For any machine built in the last decade, you can always get away with it. If your machine is that old... well, that's a different problem.

Performance problems with audio are, for all practical purposes, always caused by the audio application getting blocked for too long. Only one thing can block a realtime process, and that's the kernel. So if the app is experiencing latency spikes that cause playback glitches, it is always a device driver at fault. Always.
 
Much of this discussion has gone over my head. Sorry, but I just don't understand computers. Let me ask a couple of very specific questions that go right to my needs.

I just bought a 2TB Firewire external hard drive, and I don't plan to add any more drives until I have more than a handful of projects and finished songs. That might be a while.

For the setup I have now, I'm planning to keep my OS, Pro Tools, and plug-ins on the internal drive, and I'll put my sample libraries and loops on the external drive. I currently don't have many samples or loops, though, so this seems like a waste of a good drive.

Given THAT setup, where's the best place to keep my works-in-progress and finished songs, the internal or external drive?

Also, Steven Slate Drums is currently in the Docs folder on my internal drive. Should I split it up, leaving the application where it is while putting the Sample Library folder on my external drive? (That seems to be what the techs at SSD are recommending.)

Also, my version of Pro Tools came with a CD of audio loops. Should I load that data onto the external drive, too?

Last question, how do you guys feel about backing up finished projects in the cloud instead of on another drive? Or do you do both?
 
I know this post is quite old, but I just came across it browsing through this site - and I have to say this is a pretty interesting topic, because almost all of you are correct no matter what the setup is. I say that because, yes you should use an external hard drive for storing samples and audio files, but at the same time (for me) it has worked out for me working either or. But for one large project that I was remixing one day (and the whole project was on my Lacie 1TB External USB hard drive), I had at least about 70 tracks going and a lot of processing and once I got close to that 70-track mark (give or take), it started to get choke-ups.... and little did I realize î was because I was running everything off my external hard drive. I wound up moving that entire project folder onto my .internal drive. From that point, the entire project and all audio files worked smoothly with no chokes. To the point where I added 10 more tracks and everything was still smooth. So from that point, I just made my internal drive the "everything" drive (for storing and working with audio files, pics, samples, the DAW, etc.). But one key thing I used to do all the time was defrag my drive. From that point my external became my "real-time" backup drive. When with my laptop now, I took out the 500GB drive I had and installed a 1TB with Windows 8.1 on it and it works even better. I have my music collection on it, and I produce and do all my work directly from my laptop. I play my music (to DJ) from the internal drive and will be simultaneously recording a mix directly right back into the computer and absolutely no chokes, clicks, nor audio dropouts. I couldn't be happier no more confident with my computer setup now.
 
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