how do you know when you're finished?

[giraffe]

seriously though
i eventually reach a point when i realize 2 things

1: if i touch it any more, it will only get worse
2: in order for it to get better, someone better than me is going to have to work on it.

it's like microwave popcorn, when the pops are about 2 seconds apart you better take it out, cause it's about to get burnt.

(when new ideas come more slowly, and you're not really changeing any thing just tweaking, it's probably time to go home)

 

[masteringhouse]

Masteringhouse: Is it really that simple? Cause I've been asking these questions for a while! On another note, when you're mastering any given album, how much do you try to tame things into being "polished" versus allowing "character" to poke through? I know it's not an easy question, and probably answered by, "depends", but speaking as an ME, do you play it safe and control everything all the time, or do you not mind it if some things (volume spikes, tinniness, muddiness, etc.) get through and are noticed. Of course, I'm speaking about your personal thoughts regarding the work, and not the desires of your clients.

-marcus

For me it kind of becomes that simple. Recently I was working on a project that took nearly 2 years to complete (due to financial, scheduling, and other issues). When we started mixing it was decided that some tracks needed to be redone, and then of course re-mixed. During mixing (since it was done in Pro Tools) nearly everything was automated (including things like EQ and compression settings, pans, etc) which also took time that was in the final run was probably insignificant for most consumers. As the client was approaching the date of the CD release party things got a bit hairy, both the client (and old friend of mine) and I really started to get on each other's nerves. Even during the mastering session he had decided to do one more remix after hearing the mastered version.

Toward the end of the project we both decided that two perfectionists working on the same project was not a good idea, and ultimately anything less than perfect was as they said on the original Woodstock album "like scars in fine leather". There is no "perfect" album that I know of, that's one of the reasons why people remix classic albums. But think about it, did "Pet Sounds" really have to be remixed? Is it really "better" than the original? How many people have said that they prefer the original Beatles albums over the newly remixed and remastered versions?

A great album is about the performances and music, sonics should always take a backseat to that. How many perfect "Britney Simpson" albums will you be listening to 10 years from now compared to either the Beach Boys, Led Zep, Beatles, Floyd, etc?

 

[XLR]

This'll sound corny, but I know I'm probably done when I listen and can't contain a smile - and I mean a real, naturally-occuring-can't-supress-it smile. When I listen the next day and it forces me (against my will, as I'm usually desensitized to the music by then) to smile again, I know I should leave it alone at that point. To be honest, I've at least learned to save that version, because I often do keep experimenting with it. I almost always end up going back to the first "smile" version. If I never reach the smile stage with a mix, it means to me that the original tracking isn't going to be something I'll be able to use.

Tim

 

[RhythmRmixd]

I've noticed that I don't always care for a mix that I've been working on up to a week or so after I've finished it. This probably has to do with the fact that I've been listening to the same damn thing hundreds of times over a span of several hours.I listen for and pick out every little thing I don't like about the song while I'm listening to it. But if I go back to it, say maybe even a month or so later, after I've listened to other things and refreshed my head, I can appreciate the creativity of it and what I was trying to do with it during all those hours.

 

[sucram]

god i hope that's true, rhythmrmixd. i guess i'll start by finally shelving it for a while. in the past say... 8 months i haven't dug in on a serious project save one track. mostly the move into the new house slowed things down, and now my room sounds terrible. at least i've located a dealer of fiberglass that sells individual sheets, which i figure is half the battle, right?

thanks all,
marcus

 

[Rokket]

I put them in the mp3 clinic here and see what kind of reaction the mix gets. Usually, I am told that there isn't much that needs to be done on that side, but the musicianship needs work!

 

[lpdeluxe]

Keith Richard once said that making records was as much a matter of making decisions as anything else. There's a point where you can say, "that song does what I want it to" and you go on to the next. Otherwise you just endlessly tinker. Ever paint with watercolors? Let the brush think for you. As soon as you start working it over, everything turns to mud. And don't think every note on the hard drive is somehow precious and special. It's noise, and you're a musician. You can make more noise.

A good friend asked me to record a song he had written. We had 14 tracks or so guitar, vocals, drums, keys, backing vocals...I mixed it all down in a week of spare time and it was "finished."

Ooops, no it wasn't, that was 2 years ago and my friend is still tinkering with it, trying to make it sound "fresh and spontaneous." I never say it him, but my question is, "what's the point?"

Music lives in time. If it has the feel, let it go. It's more important to go on and create something new than to try to "perfect" something that is, by its nature, imperfect. Why spend your life constantly washing old laundry?

 

[nonreversebird]

I am done

Yea I finally am done after I think 5 months. 1 month for just mixing. Thats for 16 songs. I am happy. As a matter of fact each instrument is literally the exact level I want. I have checked the mix on several devices. Even an mp3 stream to me sounds ok. Thats pretty damn good with no mastering.

So I would say if your music can be streamed from a website and it hasnt been mastered you probably did a good job and you should be very happy with your work. I would say that is the end of it.

Now as far as this still friggen grey area of mastering I am going to find out what the deal is and when I frigging do I will let someone know. I dont see mastering as sorcery and that is kind of how it is being protrayed and I am not the only one taking it this way. But this is one message board and there are many many places to get more information so again :

IMO

if your music streams and you can crank it and it sounds ok then you are done.

hope that helps. I know how hard it has been for me to do what I have done I would hate to see someone scrap some good music just because they currently dont think it sounds good. Remember music is music and sometimes the way you play something may never happen quite the same again. Especially with vocals.

now how about a rep point for that.

 

[junplugged]

when we like the mp3 you posted home recc'ers aren't the only ones faced w/ this, but the pro's quit when the budget has been spent. You think that a producer is gonna say that we're done when he could take more of the recording advance? I doubt it.

It depends on your plan and the project, a demo is done when you got the idea accross but a production is done when you've accomplished enough of your plan for it. You need to know where you are going or you won't be able to get there from here.

There has to be a reason for everything, and there could easily be reasons for additional things into eternity, so the reasons have to be good enough in your opinion.

So therefore, you have to know the plan, and the types of reasons for the decisions you are going to make. You need to allow the reasons for the work that is important to you, and to disallow the work that has reasons that you don't agree are worth it.

blah, blah, blah, it comes down to knowing if you want to add ear candy, egotistical/technical aspects, or only those things that advance the meaning of the song, or if there is no song, then the vibe of the track. If you are at a point where you could polish more, you need to ask, "Why?" Then write down those reasons why and sleep on it. Re-read the reasons the next day or two and if they make sense still, then keep working. Otherwise, you're done.

 

[Middleman]

I mix
I buy gear
I mix some more
I buy some more gear
When I stop buying gear, its done.

I have not reached this point yet.

 

[XLR]

HA! That's exactly it.

Tim

 

[nonreversebird]

John Hillman

HUH?

ah didnt get ya at all, There is an end. I have reached it. I didnt record in a studio with rooms designed to give the ambient textures that are needed to get the generic heavy rock mix. I dont want it anyway. All I want is sonic enhancement and possibly some demension. If this is possible I will soon find out when a local ME tries one of my songs. for free.

Remember anything goes in real Rock and Roll.