How bad is Studio Projects quality control

Holy crap! I left work and had a nice dinner with the wife fully expecting this thread to be at the bottom of the page. Isn't there a thread killer around here who can put this sucker out of it's misery?

BTW, nice quote. How about a link so we can see it in context?
 
Bdgr said:
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Originally posted by DJL
Two legs good, four legs bad...BAAAABAAAAAABAAAAAAA
Two legs good, four legs bad...BAAAABAAAAAABAAAAAAA
Two legs good, four legs bad...BAAAABAAAAAABAAAAAAA
Two legs good, four legs bad...BAAAABAAAAAABAAAAAAA
Two legs good, four legs bad...BAAAABAAAAAABAAAAAAA
Two legs good, four legs bad...BAAAABAAAAAABAAAAAAA
Two legs good, four legs bad...BAAAABAAAAAABAAAAAAA
Two legs good, four legs bad...BAAAABAAAAAABAAAAAAA
Two legs good, four legs bad...BAAAABAAAAAABAAAAAAA
Two legs good, four legs bad...BAAAABAAAAAABAAAAAAA
Two legs good, four legs bad...BAAAABAAAAAABAAAAAAA



originally posted by George Orwell. But I think you've got the spirit of thing. Proud to be a part of another homewrecker classsic thread.

BTW, this is one of the most idiotic, transparent, groundless, unwarranted, etc. etc. attacks on SP I have ever seen. What gives Dee-Jay-eLL???
 
To go back to the original post...........QUOTE:.........

"How bad is Studio Projects quality control

I think the Studio Projects microphones have such poor quality control SP had to put colored dots on their microphone boxes because the mics are just cheap Chinese made mics so they couldn't fix the quality control problems so they just added colored dots instead."


DJL,

WTF is your problem?

Your comment was that full of holes to start with, that it was laughable. The flaws in your argument have been continually pointed out to you, and still you seem incapable of comprehending where you are mistaken. What don't you understand?

:cool:
 
DJL said:
all I've done is post a message stating that "because of PMI's poor quality control with their cheap Chinese made Studio Projects microphones.
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I personally don't mind a thread on the benefits/drawbacks of a given microphone, or even a specific manufacturing facility and its assets/liabilities. However, I do have a problem with the sentiment implicit in the oft repeated phrase "cheap Chinese made." I think it's unfortunate at best.

I don't have a fraction of the widespread recording experience that many on this board do, nor do I have unlimited funds with which to purchase more "acceptable" brands of microphones. While it is not my primary profession, what I do have is a decent amount of experience in writing, producing, and voicing radio commercials and public service announcements -- many of which have aired on major market stations. Lately these spots have been voiced using SP B1's. Some of my older work that I recorded in radio studios with rather pricey microphones I am redoing because, frankly, I can spend more time perfecting my material. The SP B1's are enhancing this ability, and those listening to the new spots like the voice quality coming through the B1's better than what I was getting before -- through Neumanns and Shure's and what-have-you...

I would simply close by calling to mind the late 1970's and all of the 80's. At that time, the stereotype that Japanese manufacturing was cheap was still prevalent. The actual truth was that Japanese products were less expensive than their American counterparts, but the quality of things like 240Z's, Corollas, Accords, Seiko watches, Nikon cameras, Toshiba TV's, JVC VCR's, etc, was usually significantly better than most things made here. Remember the Plymouth Volare? The Ford Pinto? In the early 80's these actually cost more than a loaded Toyota Corolla! Incredible, yet true!

I could be wrong, but I have found that not only is the price right on the stuff I own that's been made in China, the quality has been excellent as well. Maybe a given German made condensor is better than my B1. For the price, it damn well ought to be phenomenally better. Palpably better. I wonder however if we are getting to the point of diminishing returns with regard to very pricey mics... Maybe not, but I believe the Chinese have really maximised a sense of value in their products. Not a bad achievement in my view.
 
freshmattyp said:
BTW, nice quote. How about a link so we can see it in context?
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Yeah it is. Use the search fuction and type in colored dots and you'll find it... and you can also find that people asked if the Studio Projects mic's with the same color dots were really "matched pairs", but they never got an answer... want to guess why?
 
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That's your cite?

How about something from SP's page???

I think you have taken that post out of context. I would take that to imply that is as close to a matched pair of B1's as you're going to get since SP doesn't offer "matched pairs".

I guess the reason they never got an answer is because nowhere on SP's site does it say they are available in matched pairs!
 
DJL said:
Yeah it is. Use the search fuction and type in colored dots and you'll find it... and you can also find that people asked if the Studio Projects mic's with the same color dots were really "matched pairs", but they never got an answer... want to guess why?
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Maybe because....wait for it....they're not really matched pairs?

I did a search for colored dots. I couldn't find the "Quote" you posted, but I did find a lot of helpful info from Alan about finding B series mics with similar specs using the dot system. I even found one where you passed on the same info:

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/sh...erpage=25&highlight=colored dots&pagenumber=1

Can we be done with this now?
 
Some gems of wisdom from DJL's past posts...........the last one is especially good


4/6/03
If you want a matched pair of Studio Projects mic's... you need to get two mic's with the same color dots.

-33~-34dB +/-.5dB, is marked by a red dot on the packaging
-35~-36dB +/-.5dB, is marked by a green dot on the packaging
-36~-37dB +/-.5dB, is marked by a black dot on the packaging


26/5/03
The Studio Projects B1 and B3 are nice mic's and can work well for vocals, acoustic guitar, and etc. I own a matched pair of each, and the B3 has about a 2db dip at 4kHz in the cardioid pattern and other than the 4k dip it is just a little brighter sounding than the B1.



oh, and the B1 is NOT a flat mic... it's a good sounding mic and defiantly a "Best Bang For The Buck" type mic, and IMO, because it's only $79 I think everyone should have at least one in their mic locker.



Just get the B1... it's cheaper, rugged, and sounds great. Later on you can get more mic's.


;)
 
DJL, you have good mics, and I have no doubt you are a competent tracking engineer, but you really need to switch to decaf. The assumption that marking mics in output ranges for the convenience of customers equals a claim that they are "matched pairs" or equals poor quality control is patently absurd. All of your obsessive raving will not change the fact that Studio Projects mics are some of the finest budget and mid-range price condensers available anywhere, and they are backed by phenomenal customer service. I use B-1, C-3, and C-4 in a mic cabinet that includes B.L.U.E. Kiwi, AKG C414B-ULS, Shure SM7, Rode NTK,Shure SM82, and others, and the mics see plenty of use because they sound good. Quality control is simply not an issue with these mics any more than any other comparably priced mics, and their actual performance meets or exceeds any comparably priced product. So get over it.-Richie
 
billisa said:
I could be wrong, but I have found that not only is the price right on the stuff I own that's been made in China, the quality has been excellent as well. Maybe a given German made condensor is better than my B1. For the price, it damn well ought to be phenomenally better. Palpably better. I wonder however if we are getting to the point of diminishing returns with regard to very pricey mics... Maybe not, but I believe the Chinese have really maximised a sense of value in their products. Not a bad achievement in my view.
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I couldn't agree more! Here's my story...

I attended Summer NAMM a week ago today where I spent a great deal of time at the Studio Projects booth. They had their entire line of mics set up side by side along with a Neumann U87 going through a Presonus eight channel mic pre (M80?). Using my own baritone voice and various verses of Amazing Grace, I auditioned them several different times during the two days I was there, comparing the SPs to the U87. (I even managed to find times when the background noise was low :cool: )

My verdict?

The solid state SP mics had a brighter top end than the U87, or you could even say the U87 was a little dark. But other than that, the over-all “quality” of sound was not that different. It was very easy to see that one CERTAINLY didn’t dominate the other. As a matter of fact, right there and then, I liked the B3 best on my voice (which I happen to own, BTW :D ).

Another big surprise was this… I know when tracking in a quiet studio things could change, but right there, listening side by side, the TB1 sounded exactly like the U87 on my voice! I took off the cans thinking “This can’t be! The TB1 is a tube design with a 3 micron diaphragm and the U87 is a solid state design with a 6 micron diaphragm, and list for 10 times more.” Then Alan spoke up as if he read my mind, and said “You know, I think the TB1 sounds closest to the U87” and then said something to the effect that ironically, it was the least seller. That IS ironic indeed – people argue that the SP mics don’t really sound like a U87 and then pass up the model that does! Strange…

BTW, they were the only company there (out of several!) that had a competitor’s mic set up for comparison.

One more thing: While there, I listened to Marshall, ADK (loved their top-of-the-line tube mic on my voice), CAD, M Audio, Grove Tubes, and a couple of others I can’t think of right off hand. After all that, I can say this – Every manufacture had quality SOUNDING mics to offer. A different color, for your box of crayons, if you will. We are indeed fortunate to be surrounded with so many good sounding “Chinese” mics. I want to buy them all!
 
That's really interesting!!!!

I own a Shure KSM27 and a Studio Projects TB-1 and I prefer, and use, the TB-1 for my vocals. I've never heard a U-87 so I don't know about that part, but I really, really like the sound of my TB-1 on my voice. (Which I then run through a DMP3 and an RNC set up as a limiter and then into a Korg D1600 DRS.)

I also know that I'm getting really tired of this kind of crap here at homerec and am about ready to quit even coming here and wasting my time reading inane Barnyard Stuff from a closed mind consumed with bashing someone because of personal bias.

Tom

PS I have ABSOLUTELY NO complaints about the quality of my TB-1.
 
ausrock, thank you for pointing out some of my pervious post and establishing that I neither hate Alan or PMI so we can get back to the subject of PMI's poor quality control with their Studio Projects microphones.
 
Flatpicker said:
I couldn't agree more! Here's my story...

Every manufacture had quality SOUNDING mics to offer. A different color, for your box of crayons, if you will. We are indeed fortunate to be surrounded with so many good sounding “Chinese” mics. I want to buy them all!
Click to expand...

I can't say for sure, but I am going to suggest it has to do with computer design/manufacture technology... In any event, like it is with cameras, amps, speakers, cars, tennis rackets, golf clubs -- I believe with microphones it is getting to the point where it is almost hard to buy a "bad" one... Sure, it's possible, but I think we are in a time when very high quality sound (affordable only to the wealthy 20 years ago) is now very much within reach of the average person. This is not a knock on $4k mics, but let's face it, we should be appreciative of how great $79.00 can sound. It really is a great time to be recording.
 
Okay...hrm...

In your first post, you point to colored dots as a crutch for Studio Projects to fall on in place of introducing tighter quality control.

"I think the Studio Projects microphones have such poor quality control SP had to put colored dots on their microphone boxes because the mics are just cheap Chinese made mics so they couldn't fix the quality control problems so they just added colored dots instead."

It does seem, however, that at one point, you were quite satisfied with the colored dot system.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93844

Did you develop a problem with the system? If so, what happened? Did you get a pair of mics by color code that obviously didn't work as a stereo pair? I honestly don't follow this board as closely as I should and I wonder if a failure of some sort happened on your end involving SP products caused this sudden shift.

Speaking more on stereo pairs, check out the text here...

http://www.m-audio.com/products/gtmics/certpair.htm

If that's what M-Audio and Groove Tubes calls a "GT Matched Pair" I think Studio Projects is to be commended.

If you wish to criticize SP and PMI's quality control, I don't think you can put a valid argument together using the colored dot system.
 
DJL said:
ausrock, thank you for pointing out some of my pervious post and establishing that I neither hate Alan or PMI so we can get back to the subject of PMI's poor quality control with their Studio Projects microphones.
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I'm stating this in a very friendly manner... :)

DJL - read my lips...er words: PMI does NOT have poor quality control with their Studio Projects microphones. I know this is hard for you to accept, but everyone here (myself included) believes you have failed miserably in proving otherwise. Your plane's riddled with holes and flaming on it's way to the ground. Bail while you can! (If it's not too late already... :eek: ) :)
 
Because of PMI's poor quality control with their Studio Projects microphones, colored dots were added because of inconsistent output levels… it's cheaper to separate the microphones into groups and just put colored dots on them rather than to make the microphone output levels more consistent and rejecting factory seconds. Harvey has pointed out that there is a possible variation span of more than 4dB difference between the output levels of the Studio Projects microphones. We have also learned that there is more to a real “matched pair” of microphones than just having the microphone output levels in the same ballpark, and true matching requires sonic testing of the individual microphones.

Are we starting to see the picture of what's really going on yet? If not, don't worry, I'll soon be coloring in the rest of the numbers so you can see the whole picture.
 
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Sklathill said:
It does seem, however, that at one point, you were quite satisfied with the colored dot system.
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This is ture, however I'm slowly leading up to a point where you'll all clearly see that the colored dots are bogus.
 
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