Hooking up chain

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RideTheCrash

RideTheCrash

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Okay, I haven't been on this site in so long, but now that I have a part time job, and some cash coming in, I can seriously start figuring out my setup. Now mind you, I'm only 17 and don't need anything overally fancy.

I have a 16 channel Audiopro board (old one from the 80s, Yorkville doesn't make anymore). I'm looking at purchasing a Delta 44 (just 'cause the 1010 is a bit pricy for me) and am trying to figure this whole thing out in my head here. Basically I have Cool Edit 2 and want to be able to record, say, 4 mics on a drumkit, and have them run into separate tracks on the program, correct? (Provided I had the Delta).

If so, could I play the tracks on the software, and have them playback through the channels on my board, so I could physically mix on my board instead of moving lines around on the software? I would have to patch that using TRS cables right? Normal cables won't cut it?

I realize I'm kind of answering myself, I've asked these type of questions in the past on here, but it's been so long since I've thought about this, I forget it sort of.

So my board has 16 XLR inputs with 8 Line in and "Pre outs" under 8 of the 16 XLR channels. So could I run 4 cables from the "Pre outs" from 4 channels into the 4 Line ins on the soundcard, and run 4 cables from the Line Outs on the soundcard into the Line Ins on the mixer, for later actual desk mixing?

This is kind of confusing I know, but any help is appreciate, and I'll clarify what I'm trying to say if anyone needs it. Thanks.
 
RideTheCrash said:
So my board has 16 XLR inputs with 8 Line in and "Pre outs" under 8 of the 16 XLR channels. So could I run 4 cables from the "Pre outs" from 4 channels into the 4 Line ins on the soundcard, and run 4 cables from the Line Outs on the soundcard into the Line Ins on the mixer, for later actual desk mixing?
Click to expand...


Yes that is right, plus 4 more channels to record your mix back in cool edit. :rolleyes:
 
What's the sarcasm face for? It's a stupid idea or what? I just detest moving lines around to change volume levels on software.
 
Yeh that will work OK, but you'll only be able to mix 4 tracks.

Have a look at the Delta1010LT. It's got 8in/8out and is down to $220
 
Yeah...I was thinking the Delta 1010, probably should go for it. I've just been trying to find music sites online that ship to Canada. I know music123.com does, but I"m having trouble finding other sites. 'Cause music123.com has the Delta stuff, but I can't find cheaper snakes like on musiciansfriend.com that don't ship to Canada. Any suggestions are welcome...
 
The 1010 is like almost $500 on music123.com. Is there a site with a price you mentioned, so I could at least have them bring it down? Thanks.
 
Oh, I see you mean the 1010T, I thought you meant the rackable one (1010). I've read the manuals for all of these online, and the 1010T is kind of a bit confusing for me, because there isn't a box you simply just plug it into. Would I be able to achieve what I said in my first post using the 1010T?
 
I've been researching the 1010LT a bit more. Are the cables you attach it with TRS? Like, I think I'd need that to use the Pre Out on my board, but I haven't found any mention of TRS connections for the 1010LT. Help?
 
The 1010LT uses RCA connections. The outputs on your mixers Inserts are TRS.
Depending on how the Inserts on your board function will dictate the cabling you can use for achieving direct out's.
A HOSA DOC10 will convert any insert to a direct out. Then a cable such as this one will convert it over to RCA.

Now if your board offers direct outs, you can just use cables like the ones from Radio Shack.
What mixer do you have?

-Edit- nevermind .... I see you posted the mixer you use. What model #?
 
My mixer is an Audiopro 16-S. Basically on the first 8 channels, under the XLR mic jack, there is a 1/4" jack that says PRE OUT next to it, underneath it says INSERT and below that is another 1/4" jack that says HI Z LINE IN. I think the manual (I only have in PDF form) only mentions it's use for stuff like outboard effects and whatnot. Would that be able to tell you? I'd really love to find this out before I buy anything, so any help is insanely appreciated, thanks.
 
So the manual is stating that those Pre outs are the same thing as an Insert effects loop?
Do you have a link to the PDF manual, so I could take a look at it?
Judging by how your post is worded, I'd take it that those are in fact Inserts, which would require using modified cables such as the HOSA direct out cable.
However, like I had stated before ... it depends on how the Inserts are configured. Some inserts allow you to insert a regular 1/4" TS cable only half way (half click) and still maintain signal through the channel. Whereas some Inserts will break the signal through the channel the minute anything is inserted into the insert.
Why would this matter .... well if you plan to monitor off of the mixer, you need to keep the signal intact through the mixer, while at the same time utilize the Insert as a means of achieving an output for each channel.
 
Brainstorm ..... :cool:
Tell ya what, connect a mic or whatever to one of the channels.
Listen to the output from the mixers Main Out.
Now, take a regular 1/4" instrument cable and plug it into the Pre Out.
Do you lose sound from the Main Out?
Take that same cable and plug it only half way in .... do you still lose output at the Main Out?
If you still have output at the Mains in either of the above .... those are in fact direct out's.
If you lose signal at the Mains in both instances, they are Inserts and you would need to use the HOSA Direct out cables (or make your own). I can tell you how if need be.
 
Well, since it's a board they haven't made in years, Yorkville doesn't have a link to it, but I got Mike Holman to send it to me. What's your e-mail and I'll try to send it on over, because I'm sure it would make much more sense to you then it does to me. Hell, it even has the electrical "blueprints" included, if you can read that stuff.
 
In addition to the simple test I posted ....
If you still have signal to the Mains when you insert the cable only half way .... you can use that HOSA Record snake (the one with single RCA per 1/4") and just insert the 1/4" end half way.
However, prior to making the purchase, I would take the other end of that 1/4" instrument cable that you inserted half way and plug it into an amp or something to make sure that you are in fact getting output from the Insert using the half click method and still maintaining output to the mixers Mains.
 
Well ... the schematics are only of the power supply circuit and the bargraph display, but those pre out's are essentially the same thing as an Insert.
You would need to do the testing that I posted to find out whether you need Direct out cables or if you can get away with just the HOSA Record snake and half click method.
You don't even need to use the computer.
If you have a set of headphones, plug them into one of the headphone outputs to listen while you are testing the Inserts. Though you will need something that you can plug the other end of the cable you are testing with into. Any kind of guitar amp or what not that has a 1/4" input, just so you can make sure that you are getting signal out with the half click method while still having signal to the headphones.
If you don't plan to monitor off of the mixer, you don't need to worry about it. You can just plug the the cable all the way in. This will just mean that the signal from the channel will only go from the Input through the gain control and then out the Insert, and won't continue on through the mixer to the Main, headphones or the Sub out's.

If you would like to be able to monitor off of the mixer and the half click method doesn't work, I'm afraid you'll need the the custom direct out cables as well as the snake. Unless you are handy with soldering. You could make your own.
It would require taking an 8 channel 1/4" TRS snake and removing the plugs off of one side. Then you would connect the leads for the tip and ring together and solder those to the contact for the tip of a RCA plug. The shield (sleeve) wire would get soldered to the contact for the outer ring of the RCA plug. Then you would have a custom Insert snake with the proper ends for the 1010LT and still be able to monitor off of the mixer.
Hope this helps.
 
RideTheCrash said:
The 1010 is like almost $500 on music123.com. Is there a site with a price you mentioned, so I could at least have them bring it down? Thanks.
Click to expand...

zzounds sell the LT for 220.

It comes with 2 preamps, so you can use those or the ones on your mixer.

Hook up the first 8 channels of your mixer to the 8 inputs on the LT for recording. When its time to mix, hook up the LT's outputs to the line-ins on those same channels, and record the mix to 8 more tracks in Cool edit
 
Okay, I'll go try to test that now. So basically I could try this...

Plug the guitar cable into the LINE IN, so a cable going from the guitar to the LINE IN, right. Then another cable half way in the PRE OUT which runs to the Guitar Input on the amp? Would that work as a test?

I'm willing to have to spend extra money for those little cables if need be, I do believe we have soldering materials, but nobody in my family including me is very handy when it comes to something like that, unfortunately. Well I'll go test that now.


My question is whether my set up would create one of those lovely feedback loops.
 
Okay I did a little test that went like this. I got the main outs all up and running (though due to a quacky temporary setup, it's only one speaker for the time being). Then I plugged a guitar cable from the guitar to the LINE IN on a channel. On that same channel, I took another normal 1/4" (instrument, I don't have TRS, maybe this is why, but) cable, and plugged it into the PRE OUT and the other end went in the guitar input, and I turned the amp on.

Okay, so, I get sound out of the main speaker(s) with the cable in the PRE OUT half way plugged in. I push it all the way in and I still get sound out of the main speaker(s), BUT, it's a bit quieter. And on both ways (half in and fully in) nothing comes out the amp. But, when I'm first putting the cord in it makes some electronic noise. When it goes in all the way all I get is it's normal hum and buzz (it's a cheap Crate amp). So no guitar signal is coming through the amp, but that is probably because I need a TRS cable for that? Either way, I still get sound out of my mains, except all the way in, it's just a bit quieter (but not so quiet it's hard to hear).

Any idea?
 
OK, well that's odd.
I know there is likely to be an impedance mismatch between the line level insert output and the Hi Z input on the Crate amp, but I would think you should be able to get some audible signal for mere testing purposes.
Different manufactures implement different configurations for the signal routing via inserts. Be it that the Tip is the send and the Ring is the return or visa versa. I suspect that you are somehow getting a return path via the Sleeve on the instrument cable. Plugged all the way in, it is connecting the Ring contact of the Insert to the Sleeve, somehow using the ground path for a return. I suppose a faulty instrument cable (shorted) would cause this and the cables internal resistance could be the cause of lower levels at the mains.

I guess if it where me, I would go ahead and make (or buy) at least one of the custom Direct Out cables and continue testing.
It's really a simple cable if you have an understanding of Inserts and TRS (Tip, Ring, Sleeve) cables.
When nothing is plugged into an Insert, the contacts for the Tip and Ring are shorted together thus maintaining signal through the rest of the mixer channel.
However, once a cable is plugged into the Insert, that path is broken. With a standard Insert cable, you have the TRS end that gets plugged into the Insert and two TS ends (the Tip of one is connected to the wire of the Tip on the TRS and the Tip of the other is connected to the wire of the Ring on the TRS) that would normally go .... one to the input of external gear and the other to the output of that gear.
In essence, an Insert is an output and an input in one jack. The output is routed directly to the input while nothing is plugged in. The purpose of a Direct Out cable is to tap into the output of the Insert while still maintainig the direct connection of that output to the input (shorting the Tip to the Ring).
HTH
 
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