Hoobastank's cool snare tip

[Greg_L]

So maybe for newbies sakes we should not give any sort of advice in these forums then? I can't believe some of the comments in this thread. Its kind of funny actually, and truthfully, I do believe them.

I don't think there is any real debate over whether or not a snare should be well tuned, properly mic'ed etc. Of course you should always do your best to get the source signal sounding as close to the final sound that you are after. However, that does not mean that we should not be able to ever experiment with anything else either. Layering another sound in with the snare is "using a tool". What are some other tools that are commonly used in recording that not everyone seems to whine so much about? Compression, EQ, reverbs etc.... I fail to see much of a difference. I personally like to keep all of the tools that I have available to me at all times. If that means layering a shaker or a tambourine or even a click track, then so be it. If that means compressing the hell out of the overheads and EQ'ing the snot out of the kick, then so be it. If that means leaving all those things out and using the track JUST as it was recorded then so be it. In any event, the track was still played in this example, and all we are talking about here are some embellishments and artistic decisions. Personally, by blindly opposing such a technique, a person would be showing lack of creativity.

Also, it was mentioned earlier that Hoobastank was a bigger band with major label funding and that they shoudl be able to get the sounds they want without having to resort to "trickery". I find this statement pretty amusing as well. Where do you think half of the "trickery" out there these days came from? Do you really think that none of the "big" studios use these "trickeries"? I would say that if that is the case, the biggest trick they have done is convincing you that they are so good that none of that is used. Its dime a dozen, and even this whole click track idea isn't brand new, at least in its entirety. It is just another method of layering. It's slickness however is in the fact that its a track that was already there and with a couple of clicks is ready for production and is not nearly as time consuming as some other "trickeries" might be.

Thanks for the lecture, but settle down. I only oppose this kind of nonsense for noobs that will quickly run to this kind of stupidity when they can't record their snare worth a shit. I also personally think it's dumb to layer in sounds that don't belong. Hey lets layer in a dog barking too. Maybe a door slamming. That would be creative!

My bottom line, a snare should sound like a snare. A kick should sound like a kick. If that makes me or anyone else lacking in creativity, then woopdy shit. I think most of these "experiments" come from people with too many resources and I'm not a fan of experimenting just for experiments sake. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

 

[fivesixonesk8er]

My bottom line, a snare should sound like a snare. A kick should sound like a kick. If that makes me or anyone else lacking in creativity, then woopdy shit. I think most of these "experiments" come from people with too many resources and I'm not a fan of experimenting just for experiments sake. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Thank You!

And if your drummer can't hit a nice solid hit throughout a 3-4 min song, than tell them to practice!

 

[xstatic]

Well, any way you put it, by blindly writing it off, it sounds pretty close minded to me. Sounds to me like you wrote it off without even hearing the example in question here. You have no idea if the layer in question didn't nmake the snare sound like just a better snare. As drummers we do things all the time to help our sounds out. We try different sticks, different techniques, moon gel or other items on our drum heads etc.... How is this really any different? PLus, it doesn't sound to me like this specific example was even planned, it was more discovered later on.

As for "noobs" not trying this, I say bullshit. I think this trick in particular is a great one to try. If nothing else they will develop better rhythm in the process. Remember, in order for this trick to work, they do have to play well.

 

[dodgeaspen]

Never tried a click track.

 

[PhilGood]

As for "noobs" not trying this, I say bullshit. I think this trick in particular is a great one to try. If nothing else they will develop better rhythm in the process. Remember, in order for this trick to work, they do have to play well.

I think are partially right and partially wrong. I think as far as priorities you need to worry about tuning and proper recording and playing techniques before you can even begin to start being experimental. That's just the natural order of things. If you can't get a decent drum sound BEFORE you start doing tricks to spice things up, then all you end up doing is starting down a path of diversion. You will eventually have to come back to the area of getting it right to begin with anyway. Might as well just do it right the first time. Playing to a click as your goal should be a much higher priority than using the click to improve your snare sound.

 

[gecko zzed]

My bottom line, a snare should sound like a snare. A kick should sound like a kick. If that makes me or anyone else lacking in creativity, then woopdy shit. I think most of these "experiments" come from people with too many resources and I'm not a fan of experimenting just for experiments sake. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Were we to be in the same room, I'm not sure whether we would get on or whether we would end up killing each other.

On the one hand, I take your point. If someone comes to record their acoustic guitar, and brings along chorus pedals and other devices, I have to use all my diplomatic skills to convince them not to use the pedals. I want an acoustic guitar to sound like an acoustic guitar. This is the same thought as you wanting a snare to sound like a snare etc.

However, I am a big fan of experimenting, and I do it for experiment's sake. So I don't mind taking an acoustic guitar sound and doing wierd things to it. However, in doing so, it becomes a 'sound', and not a representation of a guitar.

 

[Greg_L]

Well, any way you put it, by blindly writing it off, it sounds pretty close minded to me.

Good. Being too open-minded leads to doing stupid things.

 

[Greg_L]

Were we to be in the same room, I'm not sure whether we would get on or whether we would end up killing each other.

On the one hand, I take your point. If someone comes to record their acoustic guitar, and brings along chorus pedals and other devices, I have to use all my diplomatic skills to convince them not to use the pedals. I want an acoustic guitar to sound like an acoustic guitar. This is the same thought as you wanting a snare to sound like a snare etc.

However, I am a big fan of experimenting, and I do it for experiment's sake. So I don't mind taking an acoustic guitar sound and doing wierd things to it. However, in doing so, it becomes a 'sound', and not a representation of a guitar.

We're talking about a snare. Not a guitar. Huge difference. I don't want my snare to become a "sound". I want it to be a snare.

 

[xstatic]

You act like the snare has been pulled from the album and replaced by a click track. All they talked about was layering the clikc track in with it for a little extra something. So is it all jacked up if I sit there with wood blocks and clap them together on a microphone at the same time as the on beat snare hits? Is it just the fact that something was done without manually having to do it? The funny thing is that in soooo many ways I agree with you. I haven't bought thousands of dollars of drum stuff to keep around the studio to do drum replacements with or for looks. I just think that blindly writing it off is LIMITING your creativity, not helping it.

I also think that this is a forum with a little diversity. Some members have just started delving into recording and know nothing yet. These are the people that need to learn the basics first and I wholeheartedly agree that they should learn and practice those things first before they start worrying about certain other things. However, this forum is also filled with people who have been doing this for a while and are looking for new tips and tricks, of which to many people, this would certainly be one. In the end, it is not out of place, or even out of "method" to post this tip. Not every post can be done for only the newcomer who has no experience.

For your information, most every drum session at my place uses real drums, and real mics. In fact, more than half of the sessions done end up without a click track even. The last time I reinstalled my recording drive was about 9 months ago. Funny thing is, I haven't even installed a midi drum app or drumagog on it yet. That should tell you how much drum replacement I use. The most digi drum stuff I have used is loading steinbergs LM7 to change the digital click track click to a clave sound. I also have 7 snares kicking around right now, and am always looking for more and even keep an assortment of heads and different chain sets in the studio. I am a beleiver in finding the tone first, but come mixdown things are sometimes different and require a different set of skills.

 

[Grape]

Well, my first guess would be...you'd lay down a click track...and play to it.

lol oh.. i thought he meant having the sound of a click as those from a click track being played simulataneously with the snare and only the snare.

which i was actually able to pull off and it sounds amazingg, except i used the sound of a rim shot.

 

[Yonce N Mild]

I'm not against getting creative and trying different stuff but this "trick" sounds like it would be difficult to pull off and have very little payoff.
This is the kinda thing that has to happen on accident. Planning to do this is silly. It would be easier to trigger a sample of a click or whatever.
Also what kind of click? The click on reaper would sound like total ass layered with a snare. Also how often does the snare hit on every beat like a click does?
You'd either have to fuck around getting your click to only hit on the snare (repetitive as hell no rolls or fills) or go back and cut out the unwanted pieces.
Triggering a sample would be way easier.