Hmm, help with this pre-amp I have.

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Th0mas

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I have an ART Pro Channel pre-amp/compressor/Parametric EQ hooked up to an Alesis MultiMix12, going into my new computer. I'm recording vocals, just so nobody gets that confused. I need some decent settings on this to just start me off. I've been toying with this for awhile, and I just can never seem to get it right.

Here's a picture:
helpcf9.jpg


If you can't see the picture...

My pre-amp is divided into 3 sections...

[Mic Pre-Amp]
Gain:
Low Cut:
Preamp:

[Compressor]
Threshold:
Ratio:
Compressor:

[Equalizer]
Low:
Low-Mid:
Hi-Mid:
High:

Now when I wasn't using this, I would normally record from the mixer to the PC, and mix and master my vocals on my PC in Cool Edit Pro. (i.e. compress, eq, etc.)

But now I have this pre-amp, what exactly do I have to do? Would I still have to go thru the process of mixing in the program? or what if I by-passed the compressor/eq?

but most importantly I need some default settings on here just to get me started for vocals. If ANYBODY can help I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thank you for your time.
 
Yes, you still need to "mix" in the software. This preamp is just taking the place of the preamp in your mixer. In other words, it's simply bringing the mic up to a "recordable" level. In theory, we buy separate preamps because they should do a better job of that than the cheap pres in a mixer.

Which reminds me--when using this ART preamp, you should bypass the preamps in your mixer as you get the signal computer. You would do that with an insert on the mixer.

As far as default settings for your ART go--there are none. I know, I've got a pair of those preamps. I'd say to start by bypassing the comp & eq sections. Most times, you want to track as "unaffected" as possible, and save comp & eq for the software--so you can undo and tweak your settings.

I only used the comp & eq settings on mine for things I'm very familiar with, and I know exactly how I want them. Even then it's only little tweaks. Otherwise I track without the comp & eq as well. If you really want to learn how to set them, track without them, then pay attention to what compression and eq you're using in your software. Then work on translating those settings to the hardware and see how they sound.
 
WhiteStrat said:
Yes, you still need to "mix" in the software. This preamp is just taking the place of the preamp in your mixer. In other words, it's simply bringing the mic up to a "recordable" level. In theory, we buy separate preamps because they should do a better job of that than the cheap pres in a mixer.

Which reminds me--when using this ART preamp, you should bypass the preamps in your mixer as you get the signal computer. You would do that with an insert on the mixer.

As far as default settings for your ART go--there are none. I know, I've got a pair of those preamps. I'd say to start by bypassing the comp & eq sections. Most times, you want to track as "unaffected" as possible, and save comp & eq for the software--so you can undo and tweak your settings.

I only used the comp & eq settings on mine for things I'm very familiar with, and I know exactly how I want them. Even then it's only little tweaks. Otherwise I track without the comp & eq as well. If you really want to learn how to set them, track without them, then pay attention to what compression and eq you're using in your software. Then work on translating those settings to the hardware and see how they sound.
Click to expand...

Right. But what exactly is "low-cut", "gain" and "pre-amp"? I mean, I know what gain is, but what are the other two? and what exactly do they do?
 
Th0mas said:
Right. But what exactly is "low-cut", "gain" and "pre-amp"? I mean, I know what gain is, but what are the other two? and what exactly do they do?
Click to expand...

Gain: how much you are amplifying the mic signal. (too little and you've got nothing, too much and you clip)

Low-cut: the frequency at which you cut off the signal that gets passed through. Good for eliminating unwanted low end that will just clutter the signal and the mix.

Pre-amp: how loud is the signal being passed out of the preamp. (This is different than gain, in that gain is dialing in the mic; some mics need more, some need less. You use the gain to get the mic up to a good level without clipping.) You then use the preamp (or output) to control how much volume you send to the computer.
 
WhiteStrat said:
Gain: how much you are amplifying the mic signal. (too little and you've got nothing, too much and you clip)

Low-cut: the frequency at which you cut off the signal that gets passed through. Good for eliminating unwanted low end that will just clutter the signal and the mix.

Pre-amp: how loud is the signal being passed out of the preamp. (This is different than gain, in that gain is dialing in the mic; some mics need more, some need less. You use the gain to get the mic up to a good level without clipping.) You then use the preamp (or output) to control how much volume you send to the computer.
Click to expand...

So basically... the low-cut should be turned hard left or hard right? I'm still confused as far as that goes. The gain, well, I have two of them. One is on my mixer and one is on my pre-amp. So I should turn the gain on my mixer low, and then the gain on the pre-amp high? then adjust the pre-amp?

I'm starting to fathom that, but the low-cut is still confusing.
 
Let me clarify with examples:

Gain: condensers are hotter than dynamics. So a condenser will need less gain, and a dynamic will need more--just to be brought up to a recordable level. Also on a tube pre like this, kicking up the gain is what moves the signal into the "warmer tube sound."

Output: Say you really cranked up the gain to get some overdriven tube-ishness going on. Now you probably need to reduce the overall volume so you don't clip in your software. The output let's you turn it down (or up for that matter) without affecting how much gain you're applying to the mic.

Low-cut: You're recording your accoustic and there's a bunch of boominess going on that you have to eq out anyway. Set the low cut for 70, 80, or 100 or whatever, and nothing below that frequency gets recorded. (As with all of these things, you'll have to experiment to see where that should be.)

Hope this helps.
 
Th0mas said:
So basically... the low-cut should be turned hard left or hard right? I'm still confused as far as that goes. The gain, well, I have two of them. One is on my mixer and one is on my pre-amp. So I should turn the gain on my mixer low, and then the gain on the pre-amp high? then adjust the pre-amp?

I'm starting to fathom that, but the low-cut is still confusing.
Click to expand...

See above more for more on the low-cut. As far as the gain on your mixer goes, you want that to be as nuetral as possible, so all your gain and "coloration" of the sound is coming from the pre. I'm not familiar with that mixer, so I don't know how you'd do it.

I've got inserts in my setup that pass the sound straight through with no additional gain. So when I'm using a separate pre, I go that way. There's no turning "up or down" on my mixer gain. (Mines not even a mixer really.)
 
WhiteStrat said:
Let me clarify with examples:

Gain: condensers are hotter than dynamics. So a condenser will need less gain, and a dynamic will need more--just to be brought up to a recordable level. Also on a tube pre like this, kicking up the gain is what moves the signal into the "warmer tube sound."

Output: Say you really cranked up the gain to get some overdriven tube-ishness going on. Now you probably need to reduce the overall volume so you don't clip in your software. The output let's you turn it down (or up for that matter) without affecting how much gain you're applying to the mic.

Low-cut: You're recording your accoustic and there's a bunch of boominess going on that you have to eq out anyway. Set the low cut for 70, 80, or 100 or whatever, and nothing below that frequency gets recorded. (As with all of these things, you'll have to experiment to see where that should be.)

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for your help, time, and patience. I'm starting to get a hang of this. I've been playing a little more with the "low-cut" feature, and the lower it gets the duller my vocals get... so the higher it goes, the more life my vocals have. I'm starting to understand (kind of). I just cranked the 'Gain' up and left the 'PreAmp' feature at 0, while the 'Low-Cut' is at 250Hz, which is the max. Tell me how that would look, vocal wise.
 
With the low-cut at 250 nothing below is 250 is being recorded. You're vocals sound "brighter" because you're eliminating a bunch of bass--maybe too much. Conversely, they sound "duller" with the knob all the way to the left, because you're letting all the bass in--again maybe too much. And again, you can apply a low cut in your software to experiment and learn where it should be.

Leaving the preamp control at 0 is ok to start, but you should play with gain to see how that affects the sound of the mic (again, maybe you want a touch of that distortion, but maybe not). Then depending on how hot your signal got after setting the gain, adjust the preamp so your passing along the right amount of signal to your PC.
 
WhiteStrat said:
With the low-cut at 250 nothing below is 250 is being recorded. You're vocals sound "brighter" because you're eliminating a bunch of bass--maybe too much. Conversely, they sound "duller" with the knob all the way to the left, because you're letting all the bass in--again maybe too much. And again, you can apply a low cut in your software to experiment and learn where it should be.

Leaving the preamp control at 0 is ok to start, but you should play with gain to see how that affects the sound of the mic (again, maybe you want a touch of that distortion, but maybe not). Then depending on how hot your signal got after setting the gain, adjust the preamp so your passing along the right amount of signal to your PC.
Click to expand...

Ahh, I see! The low-cut eliminates the bass. So it's kind of like the Hi's in Equlizing almost, okay... I have to play around with that. I'll do it now actually.
 
WhiteStrat said:
With the low-cut at 250 nothing below is 250 is being recorded. You're vocals sound "brighter" because you're eliminating a bunch of bass--maybe too much. Conversely, they sound "duller" with the knob all the way to the left, because you're letting all the bass in--again maybe too much. And again, you can apply a low cut in your software to experiment and learn where it should be.

Leaving the preamp control at 0 is ok to start, but you should play with gain to see how that affects the sound of the mic (again, maybe you want a touch of that distortion, but maybe not). Then depending on how hot your signal got after setting the gain, adjust the preamp so your passing along the right amount of signal to your PC.
Click to expand...

Ahh, I see! The low-cut eliminates the bass. So it's kind of like the Hi's in Equlizing almost, okay... I have to play around with that. I'll do it now actually. And what does "Phase" mean? there's a button under my pre-amp thing, and it sounds good but what's it mean?
 
Did you buy this new? If so, there's a manual. :D

But I'll bite one more time. The phase button does nothing if you're only using one mic. It reverses the polarity of the signal of the mic. This only has an effect if you're using two mics that are out of phase with each other.

Another example: I use two mics when recording a snare drum--one on top, one on bottom. So one mic is "pulling" when the other is "pushing." This can make the sound of one line up with the other in such a way as to cancel them out--they sound thin and weak. So I reverse the phase on one, and they both sound fine.

Again, no effect whatsoever when using just one mic. It's for more than one mic, close together/recording the same thing etc. Even then you have to experiment to see if you need it.
 
WhiteStrat said:
Did you buy this new? If so, there's a manual. :D

But I'll bite one more time. The phase button does nothing if you're only using one mic. It reverses the polarity of the signal of the mic. This only has an effect if you're using two mics that are out of phase with each other.

Another example: I use two mics when recording a snare drum--one on top, one on bottom. So one mic is "pulling" when the other is "pushing." This can make the sound of one line up with the other in such a way as to cancel them out--they sound thin and weak. So I reverse the phase on one, and they both sound fine.

Again, no effect whatsoever when using just one mic. It's for more than one mic, close together/recording the same thing etc. Even then you have to experiment to see if you need it.
Click to expand...

Really? For some odd reason my vocals sound a hell of a lot better when I use the "Phase" button, but it could just be me. I'm not too sure. Anyway, I have the correct bass in my voice now. I had to lower the "Hi-Cut" all the way down to 65. It's working pretty well now. And YES, I do have the manual, but I like hearing from others rather than referring to the evil manual! :P
 
Trust me, unless you're singing into two mics at the same time, that phase button is doing NOTHING.

And you should check out the manual. Like I said, I have a couple of those units, and the manual's not half bad.
 
I'd recommend just using the preamp section, with the Comp and EQ defeated, or failing a defeat switch, set to null.

Once you get used to the preamp and how it works, use the compressor a bit.

I personally prefer to EQ after the fact, using in-the-box methods. But YMMV.
 
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