High-end drum set-up

[drossfile]

OK, I have a cheap drum setup, and I'm ready to begin upgrading one piece at a time. I record metal, jazz, and folk rock. What are some high-end mics for a drum kit?

I'm playing a well-tuned Pearl Export 5-pc (I know, these will get upgraded too, don't worry), Remo Rototoms, a Pearl MMX piccolo snare, and all new, top-notch Zildjian cymbals (my set has been getting its own gradual upgrades).

Be as specific as you like (as in top/bottom snare, batter/resonant kick, ambient mic, etc). Sound source is completely taken care of, so all I need is suggestions for what will give me the most true representation. Toms are tuned low,snare is tight and dry as fuck, kick is deep and punchy.

Also, I'm currently submixing my mics into a cheap mixer with "invisible mic pres" (i won't mention the brand )--will it do me any good to upgrade to good mics without getting pro preamps?

Please don't give me "great for the money" stuff--i just want to know what's great. Unless somehow Behringer (oops I said it after all) has found a way to actually compete with Gefell or Neumann .
Knock yourselves out, guys--And the more info, the better--I'm looking to check out as many possibilities as, well...possible. Thanks!

 

[littledog]

I won't even try and answer what would be the most expensive mics to buy for your drum kit, because most of my mics are in the $200 - $2000 range. For instance, a pair of Telefunken e-LAMs would probably kick ass as room mics. But at $10,000 each, I can't say I've ever tried it myself.

But since money is no limit, I suggest setting aside some of it for acoustic treatment of your room. Specifically: some bass trapping and some mid-to-high frequency diffusion. No matter what mics you are using, a "tuned" room will make them sound a whole lot better. Then worry about your $50,000 mic cabinet.

 

[ryanformato]

Well the good news is you can get an excellent drum sound for not that much money. First start off with mics. You can get an AKG D112 for the kick or a Shure Beta 86 (I think thats the model number) $200 about.

For the Snare top/bottom you can get an SM57. You should really spend your money on overheads and get quality ones. I bought a midranged pair (Studio projects C4's $319 for both) and they sound excellent.

On Tom's/Floor tom, I use aKG 418's and 419s. I think they sound excellent.

Hope that helps a bit. I don't have the greatest setup in the world but is more than usable.

If you want to go high end, use Neumann KM184 or other higher end names.

For preamps, you should go with API, NEVE, or other quality preamps. You should work on the mics first and then spend it on preamps if you have extra.

 

[hungovermorning]

Is your capture system digital or analog. It's a night and day sorta thing. I've never miced toms going to tape, hardrive though it's nice because the cymbals shine through. If it's analog, here's what I would suggest. The less mics the better. Buy a nice kick mic (AKG D12, or I use an Audio Technica ATM 25 and I have no complaints), I put it a little in front of the kit. (Note: this is just something I like, but I usually record with the bottom heads off the kick and toms. I've tried it both ways, if your not getting a sound you like, try one set of well tuned heads). At that point since you say you have a nice room, try distance micing, you may try a pair of ribbons, but you say your pres aren't "pro" so who knows and you may want to stick with a pair of SDCs (I use Rode NT-5s and like them plenty fine, but I'm sure there's better) or one LDC (there's a ton in the world, just trial and error really, I found I like an MXL 2003, that doesn't mean an old Shure ribbon or my Oktava tube mic wouldn't cream it, it's just what sounds good) and one nice dynamic (like a Shure Unidyne IV).
I'm sure it's been mentioned many times before, but the drums, the room and the drummer are the biggest factors. I've stuck two dynamics around a good sounding well-tuned kit in a nice room and it's killed a neumann on a CB drum set with 2 month old heads.

 

[giraffe]

super stock answer.

u87's for 0verheads
md421's for toms
d12 (NOT d112, you will have to buy it used) b52 would be my second choice
beyer m-201 for snare top
(same will work fine for bottom too if that's how you want to fly)

mics will make a more noticeable difference than pre's, but new pre's will be necessary. soon.

 

[mrface2112]

putting high-end mics on a cheap drumkit in a bad room through crappy preamps would be pretty much throwing money away.

it's not NEARLY as much fun, but you need to look at the room first. drums will ONLY sound as good as the room they're in. you can put a crappy, plywood kit in a good room and get a respectable sound. however could put a $7K custom DW kit in a crappy room and it'll sound like crap.

after addressing the room, you need to address the kit. i've got a pearl export kit as well, and it's respectable, but certainly not great. you *can* get usable sounds out of it, but something with "good wood" (maple or birch, etc) would be far better.

from there, and while i hesitate to say you can hang "any" mic and get a good sound......but the point being that recording a great sounding kit in a good room takes most of the "problem" out of the equation, and you can use even low-end mics and get a usable sound.

after the mics come the preamps and recording media--both of which influence the sound, but to a much lesser extent than the room and the drums themselves. however, those behri pres are going to compromise pretty much anything that goes through them.

bottom line.......putting high-end mics on a cheap kit in a bad room would just be an exercise in futility, and you'll be wondering why the multi-thousand dollar mics you bought don't sound any better than the studio projects mics you were previously using.


cheers,
wade

 

[giraffe]

+1 to the room thing.

 

[xstatic]

Drum sounds are changed drastically by the room you are in. Some techniques will net great results in a good room, and bad ones in another. This however does not mean that great drum sounds can not be had in a less than great room like people above have insinuated. It just means that your approach may need to change. In a bad room, you may want to focus your overheads a little differently, need some EQ, and definately change your room mic positions. Typically get the room mic a little closer and probably some where between head and waist height with it.

As far as micing goes, here is what I usually use on drums....

Kick, Sennheiser D112 with an Oktava mk012 taped to it and phase aligned as best possible, or a sennheiser 901 or shure beta 91 on the inside instead of the Oktava.

Snare - Shure beta 57A on top with an AKG 451 taped to it, once again, capsule and phase aligned. On the bottom, a LD condensor with the pad engaged running parallel to the snare, same distance as the top mics, phase reversed, and completely perpendicular to the snare chains whenever possible.

Hi Hat - AKG 451

Toms - Older EV 408's ( I prefer the sopund of these to 421's and they are much easier to place ) With the right drummer, LD condensors sound great, but you have to be very careful that their playing style facilitates the use of LD condensors without drastic bleed form cymbals etc... 414's work great for this due to their shape and size.

OH's - AKG 414's. I usually run them flat to the ground, about 4 to 6 feet above the snare, and often from the rear a little or from the sides.

Room mics - I love using my Royer 121 as a room mic. With the Royer I usually have it about 6 feet out from the kit at about chest height. With my vintage U87, I like it a little higher and farther away. In cool rooms, experiment with different patterns and even odd placements. You may find it sounds the best up high and facing a corner. Do not be afraid to go with what sounds the best even if it seems odd. I would however ask yourself what negative aspects might creep up later to make sure that you really want to do that.

With drums, I have also found that the preamp is very important. With jazzier stuff, I change both my mic and preamp selection. I prefer cleaner and more neutral preamps, and tilt my mix more towards the room mics whenever possible. For rock, I like faster thicker preamps, compression in the room mics and even overheads, and mix very evenly between all mics, often going with a more direct sound than the roomier sound. A lot of this depends on the feel of each song, and the vibe needed.

 

[Stefan Elmblad]

These mics should give a good result, if everything else is up to a high enough standard:

Kick: ElectroVoice RE20
Toms: 3x Sennheiser MD421
Snare Top: Beyerdynamic M201
Snare Bottom: AKG C-414B/ULS (hypercardiod + PAD)
Overheads: 2x Neumann U87
Room mic: Coles 4038