here's a track i made up, pop category I guess

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MusicalSound

MusicalSound

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Here's one a track I called "if you're ever feeling lonely" and it took maybe 1 week and a half to write/record. That's not working on it non-stop though, I couldn't do that. The instruments I laid down were: 1969 Hoshino drums with 5 or 6 '70s Zildjian beauts, a great 1969 Hammond t224, bass guitar, electric guitars, acoustic, vox, and what else? I don't think anything else. Here's the soundcloud link:

https://soundcloud.com/musicalsound/if-youre-ever-feeling-lonely



You feel you waited half a lifetime
but you would never really know
cause it could take a million lifetimes
to be free in the wind with the air
where sorrow is rare
I gather my thoughts and I go
where my problems are far away
not in meditation but in desperation
find that you're again to fall

If you're ever feeling lonely
just sing a song and find a happy place
If you're feeling like an oldie
just sing a tune and find a happy place


you feel a part of yesterday's news
just like an old and broken shoe
but pay attention to those memories
they have held on to you; they are few
a promise to you
that life of the past is okay
and the sorrow is far away
maybe there's a message
not another question
form into my new found mind

chorus

you feel a part of yesterday's news
just like an old and broken shoe
but pay attention to the melody
there is hope in a dream there for you
a single melody rings in my ear
 
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It sounds extremely vintage 60's. The entire sound. No wonder you shot for the vintage gear. Very period piece. Does sound like a lot of distortion, though. I know that was done a bit at that time, but this is a little thick...
 
Very retro. Very distorted.

And the mix is messy . . . drums are so busy.

The song structure is quite interesting . . . there are some quirky progressions happening in there.

But it needs cleaning up badly
 
Yes, too distorted. An effect like that ought to be used sparingly - I expect producers at the time did their best to minimise that kind of distortion, so a more subtle application would be better. I do like the sound, though. I like what the drums are doing, but they need to be slightly more "buried" in the mix and lose a bit of the pristine top end that is there behind the distortion - maybe a tape saturation effect? I'm glad you're doing something a bit different. :)
 
Actually this was cut on a 1974 Pioneer RT-1050 at 15 ips! Only one channel working, right one down! This is a mono mix. 1960s d12 on bass drum, a 1975 Teac 5 mixer as the mixer and a 1978 Ashly SC-50 as the compressor. The tape was 1960/1970s sony Brown 1/4"....I could'v swore it was less distorted last night!
 
MusicalSound said:
Actually this was cut on a 1974 Pioneer RT-1050 at 15 ips! Only one channel working, right one down! This is a mono mix. 1960s d12 on bass drum, a 1975 Teac 5 mixer as the mixer and a 1978 Ashly SC-50 as the compressor. The tape was 1960/1970s sony Brown 1/4"....I could'v swore it was less distorted last night!
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That authentic, huh? :D I really, really like it - the sound, the tune, your voice, everything. I just think the harshness and distortion needs reining in ever so slightly.
 
I love everything except the amount of distortion overall. Bring those levels down just a bit to clean it up and you've got a winner here. It's a really excellent song, nice performances, nice tones on everything.
 
There's so much space all over this one that the sound is...vague and indistinct. I like the song a lot though, and I think it deserves a better mix than this. You could start with the vocal: take a bunch of that reverb off it and pull it forward. Adjust the rest of the mix accordingly.


Redo those backing vocals though - they suck.

Oh...and as you take all that masking space off the mix, you might find you want to redo some other parts. Do it.

You've got a really good voice for this kind of tune. Why are you hiding it under a blanket of murk?
 
hmm because my gear just isn't there - my 8-tracker is broken down! I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE to make ultra dry recording once in a while, but whenever I do something in digital I hate the sound so much that I soak it in a spring reverb. Yeah, this was mixed to a reel to reel, but everything was INITIALLY done on a laptop, although the drums were analog to begin with. Digital really does sound worse than tape. It just does absolutely nothing for me. I've sent the same EXACT 5 channels of information in mono to a reel to reel and a line out to my laptop, and had both the laptop and tape recording at the exact same time (me playing drums). Tape always wins, much thicker bass, a "higher energy" type sound, the cymbals sound real and musical. When I play back the same track in digital the sound always has this annoying "pop" type sound to it. The bass of the bass drum is somehow altered; it's bassy sure, but not the same kind of bassy. It's missing some thickness there and always has this weird "pop" sound that makes my drums sound quite artificial. And a general sense of sounding dull. The areas where digital win in are obviously no noise really and very consistent - its got no dropouts, no "surface noise" so to speak etc.

I realize this is just a ramble at this point, but if I could bear my soul, if I could get a good condenser mic and get my 8-tracker working again, my dream would be to make dry recordings like these I'm about to link to. My friend in Indy moe whittemore made both of these recordings in his living room in 1976 and they're p-r-e-t-t-y amazing. I'm pretty sure the first song was tracked to a 3M 1/2" four-tracker, and the second song recorded to a Teac 70-8 8-track (like the one I've got). moe made his own custom plate reverbs - if you listen to the Rhodes on the second track you will hear just a TASTE of that plate. It's perfect. Actually he made THREE of those echo plates back in '72. Moe is an excellent guy with such good ears, but he had very good equipment no doubt about it. The first track is very dry! Listen to that vocal how dry it is - that's a vintage 1957 U47 mic on the vocal (same vocal mic used on the second track as well!) My OM5 audix straight into the computer would never, ever give this kind of a dry vocal sound:


(The Sequoiah group, Indianapolis IN featuring Tom Mobley. 1976)


(This is the band Malachi, Indianapolis IN. The very obscure Bruce Weingardt on vocals - how did this band only play proms?? Very quality!!!! recorded 10/'76)
 
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hmm here's another mix I found. according to the note t took the first mix up there was done to vintage brown Sony tape of the 1967is to early '70s range. this next mix i scrounged up was done to older (early-mid '60s) Scotch brown colored tape. it does sound different, much less distortion but I probably also had the limiter set differently. I happen to know the year of the Ashly compressor because of its pot code numbers. it's a 37 year old piece of steel and i just have a lot of affection for it. actually have another one from 77 too.
 

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The song and performance is excellent. The distortion is killing the mix, but you already know that don't you.

i don't hear dobro's issue with the backing vocals, but my ears are plugged up with a cold, so I can't hear that much of anything meaningful at present...

Soundcloud moved on to Buffalo Billycan after this tune, and that mix sounded really good. You've got that late 60s Zombies/Pretty things type sound nailed :thumbs up:
 
wow, how strange. based on the comments I processed an all digital version of it. I guess when I was drumming into the tape machine initially to make the track I also had the computer capturing the same signal off of the mixer, so here's the drums in entirely digital land. I took off all of the reverb channels and there's just a bit of spring reverb on the lyric to taste. wow, it is a lot clearer. but I'm really uncomfortable with it and I like the tape versions much more. to be honest I really don't like this so called song at all. i'd rather make something less embarrassing like pink floyd or Yes.
 

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So the Soundcloud version is really tinny and reverby and the drums are overpowering everything - basically I didn't care for the mix. Vocals were to low etc etc.
This last mix of the song is like a million times better - it has a real nice 60's vibe not only in the song structure but in the SOUND. It's clean and clear and balanced. I'm trying to think who your voice sounds like - maybe a bit of Morrison...
 
This last mix is excellent by comparison to the piece of poo you posted earlier. The fact that you prefer the earlier one is embarassing. The difference between digital and tape is miniscule compared to the difference between these two mixes. Maybe you prefer using tape, and fair enough, but don't pretend it's going to make that much difference to the sound of a mix, cuz it just ain't true.

But maybe the reason you don't like the clarity of this recent mix is that it's now glaringly obvious that you need to re-do the backing vocals and the drums. :spank:

But I'm glad I heard the recent mix, because now I have a much better idea what the song's about.
 
Yeah, I read those comments about digital sucking, etc.....and had to bite my tongue. But now that Dobro has mentioned it.

Seriously, don't blame digital. Nothing wrong with liking the sound of analog better, but digital doesn't make anything sound bad. In fact, digital doesn't color the sound at all. Tape does. If you like that coloration, fair enough. But digital is 100 per cent honest. If you find it gives you a cold sound, it's because you're giving IT a cold sound.
 
dobro said:
But maybe the reason you don't like the clarity of this recent mix is that it's now glaringly obvious that you need to re-do the backing vocals and the drums. :spank:
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I have to say, dobro, when I read this comment and your earlier one about the backing vocals being off, I thought "what the hell's he going on about - they sound great?"

Then I listened past the three minute mark, and I see where you're coming from. They're really, really off.

Musicalsound, I like your playing a lot and your voice is remarkable. I echo the Jim Morrison comment and also think it has an element of the top sixties crooners about it.

The mix that you hate sounds pretty good to me, with caveats regarding those backing vocals.
 
This one's better than crooner material. I really like this song.
 
well I feel I've done enough tests in my garage to know the Pioneer 1050 (discrete electronics too) always wins in the "musical" department. Maybe I didn't get it right this time, but if you ever get to properly A/B the two mediums you'll definitely find the tape machine (especially one this old with heads in good shape) to sound "juicier" for lack of better word. I dunno if this is too much information but you're chatting with a guy who doesn't listen to music after Dec 1979. I just specifically like that old sound, and even though I really just don't listen to any non-60s/70s music, every time I do hear a new song in the pop rock vein think I might actually like it if was recorded in 1969 and given those treatments, but instead the move from a "mysterious" sound to a very revealing clear sound just depresses me. Why am I the only person who feels this way? No, I don't like the sound of digital. I've had my 8-track set-up when it was working with noise reduction and spring reverbs and '70s tape delays for effects loops. It's just a whole different sounding beast and it causes me to write totally different. It's like I take it so much more seriously.

I think where all of the comments here have been good and where I really appreciate it is that I can absorb all of the requests and try to put it into another thing. This is just a demo just to see what the song would sound like, and it's not that good (for me anyways). if it were something special like Abbey Road then yeah I'd re-do it. but now I'm inspired to do something more, and hopefully get better first impressions the next time around in terms of sound and song. I've got dreams, I want to make something more psychedelic but I dunno where to begin
 
Have to agree with the others - the soundcloud version is heavily distorted and the reverb drums are way out there. 'Digital' version is much better, although the vocal is very dry. The BG harmonies fall apart in the bridge at 3:00, as said. The lead guitar at the end is a little low in the mix.
 
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