Help with home studio setup?

[cvd]

Hello folks,

Just wanted to get some of your advice. A little background info…I want to record an album, and I want to do it at home. I’m getting a working budget here, and trying to make sure I have everything and not missing any small details that can really add up.

What I have now:

Guitar: Route 101 (online manufacturer for those wondering)
Line 6 Pod 2.0

Drums: Roland V-Studio set with TD-10 (no expansion card)

Bass: Ibanez (about $300 Retail)

Recording: Fostex FD-4 with 6 Gig hard drive.
Event TR-6 studio monitors
Win XP pro with Creative Labs IR Blaster sound card



Now here comes the part where you experts pitch in a helping hand! Heres some of the things I think I will need, and what I expect them to cost…

Drums-

Cymals-300
Cymbal Stands-150 (3 stands)
Expansion card-300(not sure on the card yet)
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Guitar-

Amp-about 1000..looking at a Line 6 Flextone, but this can wait since it’s for live performance
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Bass-What should I get for this? Should I spring for a bass Pod, or a new bass and record direct? Lets go with…500
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Recording-

2 Shure SM-57 or 58….250
Cables-150?

I’m not sure what exactly I want, but..I’m going to budget about $3000 for this…feel free to offer recommendations…I’m still researching exactly what I need.

I’m at about $5650…am I anywhere close? What other cost do I need to take into consideration?

Please for give me for lack of specifics…this is quite a bit off, and I’m still in the major planning phase. So, help me wise ones!

Yes, I"M glad the forum says feel free to ask stupid questions

 

[spectrescape]

I'll just comment on the Bass issue - if your Ibanez isn't the most amazing $300 bass ever, then I'd say pick up a BassPOD. My feeling is (and true bass guys, correct me if I'm wrong) - you only really wanna go the direct recording route if you have a great bass and a great direct box. Now, I know a great direct box will run you between $150 and $200. And I'm only a fake bassist, but I don't think you'll be able to find a great bass for the remaining $300 in your budget.

Best advice - haul your bass into Guitar Center or somewhere, and plug it into a BassPOD. If you like the sound, then you've just saved yourself some money.

I run an OLP 5-string through a BassPOD, and I'm quite happy.

Oh yeah - are you going to be recording vocals of any kind? Didn't see that anywhere in your specs.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

So what do you have in mind for the way you'll be recording? How many sources will you be wanting to record simultaneously? How do you see the fostex unit fitting into your set-up? (as you mentioned a PC as well). What's the spec of the PC?

First off I'd get a better soundcard, the SB cards really aren't suited to recording audio. The type of card you'll need will depend on answers to the above questions.

 

[apl]

I've got Event PS6 monitors and they're great.

The Carvin basses sound very nice. I record mine direct into my soundcard (TASCAM US122) because it's got inputs designed for that.

You may want to consider recording direct to PC instead of using the Fostex. It gives you more flexibility but adds a little managable complexity.

A good vocal mike would be the RØDE NTK.

You might also need some acoustic treatment for your recording area. See www.etanwiner.com and www.realtraps.com

 

[cvd]

Thank you for the responses.

I will be recording vocals eventually. I was planning on getting an SM57 or 58 for that (which is the better overall mic?). Not saying the vocals will be excelleng, but they wil be recorded

I reckon it was a bad idea to mention the Fostex. The only reason I mentioned it is to give you an idea of what I had. I'm looking into getting one of the 16-24 track all-in-one machines (like the Roland VS2480CD)

All this is still in research mode,but I think I'd like 8-10 tracks simutaneous recording. If I could, I'd like to be able to seperate all the drums, with 2 overheads used for the cymbals.

One more thing...I will be learning all this by the seat of my pants! I'm going to dedicate an entire summer to recording and learning how the equipment works. How much of a learning curve do you think I'll have? Here's a hint...I have NO IDEA what I"m doing. But, I will be taking audio engineering classes in the fall.

Ok, I hope all that made sense. Thanks for the advice/input!

Chris

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

What's the spec on your PC like? Have you considered recording into the PC? You'd need an interface, some software and some external pres or a mixer (although some interfaces come with built in pres).

There are some good all-in-one units out there (also sometimes referred to as SIABs- studio in a box), but my opinion is that recording into a PC with some good recording software is much more flexible. I used a SIAB for a while (albeit a budget one) but I found I outgrew it pretty quickly in terms of both sound quality and features.

It's probably something you should look into. I know the PC vs All-in-one question has been asked a few times before so try a search.

 

[iwanarock]

You are asking a bunch of questions, let me give you some things to consider.

1) First the suggestion on the Bass POD or Bass Pod/xt is a good one. I use a Bass Bod all the time to record my bass parts direct. It is is excellent and provides lots of tonal bass options and I highly recomend it. Well worth the investment.

2) For your POD 2.0 if you haven't already done it you should go buy a M-Audio Midi-sport Uno (1-in/1-out USB Midi interface cable) to connect between your PC and your POD 2.0. Then go to Line 6 Web site and download line6 edit program (free). Then you can start to pull the 1000's on patches on the Line 6 custom tone library and call up or load them directly to your POD very easily. The amount of amp/models/effects tone collection out there will really help you find tones the fit your type of music. This really opens up a world of tonal options and flexibility.

3) You asked about Flextone amps. I have a Flextone II HD and Line6 412s Cab and absolutely love the thing. If you are used to the POD 2.0 amp models and like them then I would suggest a Flex II model of some sort. I also have a PODXT live I just picked up (basically Vetta HD technology) which also has an array of possibilities and is quite a powerful little box. There are so many option in this space.

4) SM57 & 58 are good all around mics. I use my SM57 more often then the 58, but another good option is look at the Sennheiser MD-421 ($250-300), which a dynamic mic that is a step above the SM57/58 and can be used for lots of different things. You might also want to consider some condenser mic's (need phantom power) like Studio Project B1 ($80) and Studio Projects C1 ($200) for vocals or the MXl V67G ($100) & MXL 603 ($80-100).

5) For standalone recording I would also look at the Yamaha AW16G for its features and price point it is an excellent choice. But Yes there is a learning curve using all recording technology, unfortunatley playing the music is only a small piece of getting a CD completed, I easily spend 2,3,4 times as much time in front of my recording console mixing and mastering stuff. It takes a lot of patience and a good ear to get it just right.

Hope this helps.

 

[cvd]

Thanks again for the responses folks, it's truly appreciated.

Kevin-

I haven't really considered the PC route, and one reason is that I find it a bit intimidating. I did have a cakewalk program I tried to play around with, but, there's something I really like about just being able to tweak a knob insteand of going through 8000 mouse clicks, although I imagine the new SIAB are about the same thing.

What kind of SIAB did you have, and what features did you need that the computer could give you that the SIAB couldn't? What was the big jump in quality?



iwanarock-

For the new Flextones, can you still transfer tones between the POD and the Flextone, or am I completely off base?

For the mics I guess I want to start with the SM-57s because of their price and durability. The only thing mics are going to be used for are to mic cymbals and vocals. I'm still refining my budget, so I will definitely check out the MD-421 if the budget is looking more friendly

Hell, the more I learn, the less I know, and I get a hell of a lot more confused and wonder why the hell I want to do this

 

[iwanarock]

CVD ... the answer to your question on the tone transfer is it depends. The newer Flextone Amps are Flextone III's, they are built off the Vetta Family family of modeled amps. The Vetta, The POD/XT and POD XT/Live are all the same family. As a matter of fact you can upgrade the POD/XTLive to have everything a Vetta Head has model wise. The POD 2.0 And Flextone II amp series of products are from the same family. So depending on what tones you are trying to share between which products, they may or may not work as expected. They do try and map them as close as possible, but with significant technology difference between the families some tweaking would be require. But yes using Line 6 edit (free from Line 6) you cant take a tone from a POD 2.0 and load it on a Flex III but results will vary how a like they are. But there is an extensive collection of tones in the Custom tone Libraries on line 6 WEB site for all of these Products. All POD tones will load on a Flextone II identically. I am not going to say which is better, as I think they both have strengths and weakness, and there are certain things about each one I like.

SM57 is a good choice and I use mine alot, great on a snare, but you may want to also consider Marshall (MXL) 603 or Studio Projects B1 which are lower priced but good condenser mics to use as overheads and vocal as well. You would be surprised how each different mic colors the recording,especially with vocals. A lot of folks use the MXL 603 for Drum Overheads and Micing guitar cabs, I actually happen to also like it as a vocal mic with certain voices. But I understand we all have to make choices on where to invest.

 

[iwanarock]

Sentence Correction for above:

". But yes using Line 6 edit (free from Line 6) you cant take a tone from a POD 2.0 and load it on a Flex III but results will vary how a like they are.

Should READ: "you can" .... not "you cant".

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Kevin-

I haven't really considered the PC route, and one reason is that I find it a bit intimidating. I did have a cakewalk program I tried to play around with, but, there's something I really like about just being able to tweak a knob insteand of going through 8000 mouse clicks, although I imagine the new SIAB are about the same thing.

What kind of SIAB did you have, and what features did you need that the computer could give you that the SIAB couldn't? What was the big jump in quality?

I was the proud (ahem) owner of a Zoom MRS 1266, as I said, one of the budget SIABs.

You can read my opinion on the SIAB vs DAW debate in this thread:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=148246

In the interest of balance, there is an excelent post by Tedluk in that thread which gives the benefits of the all in one recorder and the downside of recording with a computer.

 

[tubesrawsom]

use your money for real studio time youll get better results, learn more, and support the dying industry they need your help

 

[brett304]

A couple of considerations!

Obviously you plan to devote a lot of time and money to this. You said you're going to take classes in engineering and this all says alot about where you want to go with this...

My plan through thousands of dollars of equipment has been to buy things that I will continue to use (resale value is usually terrible). This doesn't mean that you have to buy expensive gear. Instead you need to think about your recording chain.

I'm going to say that I've not heard a single bass that would sound terrible through a modeler. You could buy one and probably use it untill your old and grey... Just a random thought about this: If you have a modeler for your guitar already, why not just buy a good straightforward amp for about $500 and use the modeler you already have??

A note about going the computer route... You can get a program that is as simple or as complex as you would like to go with this thing... Some of them are so straightforward you can figure it out with the basic knowledge that comes from operating a tape deck.. Also a huge benefit to the computer route is that you can keep each component seperate and get something that suits you. Consider the resale value of a SIAB that you don't want anymore.

Consider that your signal chain starts with your mics and preamps and consider how you would like to get a reasonable signal... Rember that some of the great recordings of history have been made by mics that are junk in comparison to any $40 mic that you can buy today...

Also wanted to say that (if my mind serves me correctly) you using an electronic drumset could be an advantage to you... I believe that you could use a single midi cable to transmit the data you need to a computer... IF this is true then you may very well only need to have 2 similtaneous imputs. You could get a soundcard system that has two imputs with fantom power and two direct imputs and a midi I/O for less than 400 bucks... Add a cheap or free (and simple) recording program like N-Tracks or Cool Edit and you would be on your way...

For my home studio recording purposes I could easily get by with two imputs as I usually track everything seperately anyway... My biggest problem is drum tracks and with a mixer you can fix that reasonably easy... This shouldn't be a problem though as you have an electronic set and can probably send it out as a single output if you wanted (which by the way means that you don't NEED a midi I/o for what you're talking about although with the right knowledge would make things easier and more versatile..)

The basic setup which I have described could easily be understood within the summertime... It would give you all the basic features you would need and would give you a great start to begin your engineering classes in the fall where you will most likely identify things that are worth spending your money on, features you would like to have, the basic knowledge of how to use those tools once you got them, etc... For example: If the classes use a computer based system you would probably see and learn to use a soundcard system with 10 or more imputs and eventually you may decide that you would like to get one, you may even decide you want the one you worked with in particular...

I'm sure that it's obvious that you would save alot of money and you could do more than occupy your time with a setup like I have described... I make semi-professional demos with a setup like this and I now understand what I'd like to have...

One thing you may want to consider doing everytime you want to buy something and can't or if you're not sure its what you want... Learn how to use the gear you have to it's fullest potential... Everytime I can't afford to buy something I sit down to get something for free or cheap or I pick up the manuals of something I already have... You may not quite understand the power of what you already have.... For example: The midi capabilities of your drumset could allow you to trigger any sounds you want into your demo's once you get started...Or you could edit the snare independently, etc. etc..

Hope this helps.... Good luck! And remember there is no quick easy answer... Take the time to understand this stuff, it will be incredibly useful!