Help: Recording Live to Stereo

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mdlynn

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Hi,
I was wondering if anyone here would offer some advice on the best ways to go about recording live to stereo. My purposes are mainly for recording band rehearsals and gigs. Thus far I have been using a Marantz stereo field recorder, but it is on its last legs, and I have decided to replace it. I initially was going to go with some digital solution, but after borrowing a Superscope PSD300 I have decided that I would rather stick to the analog world. There are a couple of reasons for this. Firstly, I am visually impaired, and while I could manage setting up the PSD300 to record, all the more advanced functions are hidden away in a complex menu structure. Secondly, while the sound of the PSD300 was pretty good. It was too bright and brittle sounding.

My reasons for looking at digital was to hopefully circumvent the issues with having to keep track of times remaining on the cassettes as well as speed the process of getting the recordings onto the computer. In the end, the less than desirable sound and the difficulty of operation has driven me back to an analog solution. But I have several questions.

1. I have looked at the Tascam 4-track units, but I don't think these can be used as a traditional stereo deck: namely to get 45-minutes of live stereo recording to a side. Is this correct.

2. If I went with one of the traditional stereo cassette decks, I am giving up mic inputs. I presume then I would need to get some sort of preamp into which the mics would plug, and then the preamp would connect to the RCA ins on the deck. Is this correct, and will it work? Will it work well? Would it be better to go with an analog mixer instead of a dedicated preamp?

3. I will still need to get the recordings onto the computer in order to burn copies. I have already decided an upgrade of the SoundBlaster will be necessary. If I go with something like the M-Audio Delta 66, will I be able to connect an audio cassette deck to this unit via something like the M-Audio DMP3 preamp? Will there be any problem finding cables to allow this? Afraid the many pics of these various units don't help me much.

Thanks for any help you can provide.
 
mdlynn said:
Hi,
I was wondering if anyone here would offer some advice on the best ways to go about recording live to stereo. My purposes are mainly for recording band rehearsals and gigs. Thus far I have been using a Marantz stereo field recorder, but it is on its last legs, and I have decided to replace it. I initially was going to go with some digital solution, but after borrowing a Superscope PSD300 I have decided that I would rather stick to the analog world. There are a couple of reasons for this. Firstly, I am visually impaired, and while I could manage setting up the PSD300 to record, all the more advanced functions are hidden away in a complex menu structure. Secondly, while the sound of the PSD300 was pretty good. It was too bright and brittle sounding.

My reasons for looking at digital was to hopefully circumvent the issues with having to keep track of times remaining on the cassettes as well as speed the process of getting the recordings onto the computer. In the end, the less than desirable sound and the difficulty of operation has driven me back to an analog solution. But I have several questions.

1. I have looked at the Tascam 4-track units, but I don't think these can be used as a traditional stereo deck: namely to get 45-minutes of live stereo recording to a side. Is this correct.

2. If I went with one of the traditional stereo cassette decks, I am giving up mic inputs. I presume then I would need to get some sort of preamp into which the mics would plug, and then the preamp would connect to the RCA ins on the deck. Is this correct, and will it work? Will it work well? Would it be better to go with an analog mixer instead of a dedicated preamp?

3. I will still need to get the recordings onto the computer in order to burn copies. I have already decided an upgrade of the SoundBlaster will be necessary. If I go with something like the M-Audio Delta 66, will I be able to connect an audio cassette deck to this unit via something like the M-Audio DMP3 preamp? Will there be any problem finding cables to allow this? Afraid the many pics of these various units don't help me much.

Thanks for any help you can provide.
Click to expand...

Here's a low, low budget solution which will yield fantastic results if you want that "fly on the wall" live recording of your band:

(1) Get one of those consumer 4 track stereo open reel decks, like a teac for example and ...

(2) a couple of "Realistic" brand PZM microphones, which are phantom powered by batteries.

All you need to do then is to insert the 2 mics into the L & R mic inputs of the recorder, set proper gain, place the mics properly (to get the desired sound) and get some good tape.

~Daniel
 
mdlynn said:
... 1. I have looked at the Tascam 4-track units, but I don't think these can be used as a traditional stereo deck: namely to get 45-minutes of live stereo recording to a side. Is this correct.
Click to expand...
[GEAR]: Something like the Tascam 424mkIII (new) or the 246 & 424mkII (used) will run at "Normal" speed, (as well as HIGH speed). Other NORMAL-speed 4-track Tascams would include the Porta-One, Porta-Two, Porta 02/mkII, and others. Dual-speed Tascams would also include the 464 and 644, but being LCD-meter designs, these would probably be less desirable for vision-impaired users.
[METHOD]: You may record on tracks 1/2 in one pass (at Normal speed), which you'd then "flip over" to record the "second" side. This would give you the "standard" cassette format and run-times you're expecting.


mdlynn said:
... 2. If I went with one of the traditional stereo cassette decks, I am giving up mic inputs.
Click to expand...
What I'm accustomed to as "traditional" stereo cassettes, would INCLUDE mic inputs. These may be mostly older Ebay-type items, that have this feature. One of my favorite searches is Ebay: "Technics cassette". (See: Technics RS-955, below)

...
cjacek's suggestion of an open reel recorder is certainly a good one, 'cause the fidelity and features are there, but open reel's a bit bulkier and less convenient than standard cassette. Maybe an obvious point,... sorry!

;)
 

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Dang,... you're quick on the uptake!

Heh-heh.;)

Yeah, great deck: great deal!

Thanks! ;)

PS: Appreciate (or not), take or leave my advice,... but I always put my money where my mouth is!
 
Technics

If you're looking for a Technics deck with dbx I've just stumbled across this one looking for something else...

Remember NZ$1 is about US$0.70 at the moment.
 
thanks all for the suggestions. But are there any current production model decks with mic inputs? If not, can this be circumvented by using a preamp or connecting the deck to a mixer? I like knowing hwere my gear has been so to speak.
 
get a little mixer. youll learn alot from it and it will give you many options later on. if your just going to do a stereo recording there are a ton of 2 track reel reels out there you could buy and the 1/4" tape is cheap. then if you decide to start multi tracking you could always use the 2 track as a mix down deck. great way to learn signal chain and develop your ears for mixing.
 
mdlynn said:
thanks all for the suggestions. But are there any current production model decks with mic inputs?
Click to expand...

Yes, but they either suck or are bloody expensive! ;)

If not, can this be circumvented by using a preamp or connecting the deck to a mixer?
Click to expand...

Yes, if you get a deck with only RCA's then a mixer should do the trick.

I like knowing hwere my gear has been so to speak.
Click to expand...

What format do you wish to work with ? Are you after a cassette deck or ..... ? What is your budget like ? What type of results, as in recording quality, do you expect ? How "complex" do you wish this to be ? I understand you wish to purchase "new" and preferably at your local audio store ?

~Daniel
 
I want the best possible results for let's say $1,200 for everything which includes cables, mixer, preamps and the deck. Best if I could also include a couple of good mics as well, but I can get by with the SM57s I have presently. They work well enough for this purpose. The less complex the unit is to operate the better.
 
Whoops. I think I would prefer cassette as it looks (based on what I have read here in the forums) that open reel decks require a fair amount of reg maint. And it is difficult to get parts or find people to work on them. I never seem to have a lot of luck winning auctions which is one reason why I would prefer to buy new. The other side of that is Ebay is just a pain in the butt to use for me with screen access. And I can't tell squat about the conditions based on picutres. I used the politically correct term "visually impaired" but I am totally impaired in that rguard.
 
If I wanted cassette and had 1200.00 for everything then I think I would go with a new tascam 424 mkIII. Thats 300.00 Plus it would give you the extra 2 tracks to play with other mics if you want plus with the extra speed better qaulity along with dbx. Also pick up a couple of mxl 603 condencer mics and a ART phantom power supply to power them. Add some cords and maybe some stands and you are still below 650.00 bucks and would have a pretty nice setup. Or look for a nice used tascam 22-2 reel to reel. Now your talkin some nice sounding recordings.
 
I'd just stick with the Tascam 424mkIII.

It's an integrated mixer/cassette recorder that will do everything you need it to do, in a small, inexpensive package. ;)
...
http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--TAS424MKIII
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Item: TAS424MKIII
 

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The 424mkIII...

The 424mkIII is capable of "recording live to cassette tape in normal speed, standard stereo format, with 45-min of run time on each side",... as your original stated goal. (See notes, above).

However, your best sound quality & production value is attained by recording 4-tracks, direct & live-to-tape, in High speed (in one direction). You'd mixdown and dub to a "normal" cassette or the 'puter for burning to cd, later.

Just a tip.;)
 
OK! I will move the Tascam 424 MK III back into first place on my list. that's where it was a week ago before I tried reading the manual. I suspect this is one of those things that is easier learned by doing, but after reading the manuals for some of the digital decks, this didn't look all that much eaiser all be it with no menus.

that still leaves the question about getting the recordings onto the computer for buring to CD. If I go with something like the Delta 66, will I need a preamp as well, or do the preamps in the Tascam suffice. Sorry for the typos. Can't edit these messages for some reason .

thanks for the suggestions. It has helped sort out a few things.
 
mdlynn said:
OK! I will move the Tascam 424 MK III back into first place on my list. that's where it was a week ago before I tried reading the manual. I suspect this is one of those things that is easier learned by doing, but after reading the manuals for some of the digital decks, this didn't look all that much eaiser all be it with no menus.
Click to expand...

That is also the reason why I recommended the rather "simple" approach with my original reply. However, knowing more about your expectations steered the final recommendation toward the 424mkIII.

It's (the 424mkIII) really not that complex and yeah, it would be of more benefit to you to be actually working with the unit than reading the manual - except the part about cleaning and maintaining the tape path on a regular basis. ;)

that still leaves the question about getting the recordings onto the computer for buring to CD. If I go with something like the Delta 66, will I need a preamp as well, or do the preamps in the Tascam suffice. Sorry for the typos. Can't edit these messages for some reason .
Click to expand...

If all you wish to do is mixdown to final stereo then all you need is a "Y" cable with RCA L & R (from your recorder) going to 1/8" stereo into the "line in" of your audio pc card. Mine is integrated with the motherboard and sounds fine.

~Daniel :)
 
The 424 is just about as easy as a regular cassette deck and sounds many many times better than any of that digital crap there is on the market.
 
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