help me help my bass player understand

R

rockironwebb

senior newbie caveman
Bass player has a hartke lh 500 head. It has two speaker outputs that say 8 Ohms next to each one. He just ordered a 4 X 10 cabinet that is 400Watts at 4 OHMS, and plans to plug this as well as an 18 inch speaker (wattage and ohms unknown but assumed to be 400Watts/8 OHMs) He says he is going to re-wire his new cabinet to be 8 OHMS and then be able to push enough power to each speaker cab. I think he is an idiot, I'm not saying that the speakers won't make any noise, I just don't believe what he is doing will be efficient. I told him that instead of dropping cash on shit that needs to be modified he should have done a little more planning and got what he needs. I don't really care that much because I'm sure that as long as he doesn't ruin his head or speakers he will be loud enough for me to hear him. I just irritates me that he is so half-cocked about his gear, plus he always seems to end up asking me about what he should do, after he has already bought shit. What are your thoughts.
 
I just downloaded the LH500 manual and it recommends using either one 4 ohm cab, or 2 x 8 ohm cabs. I'm not sure how he's going to re-wire the 4x10 to get 8 ohms?

My assumption is that the drivers are each 4 ohm, so there would be 2 drivers in series (8 ohms) paralleled with the other two drivers in series (8 ohms) to bring the nominal impedance of the cab to 4 ohms.

Maybe that doesn't help :confused:

Paul
 
Does he really need to make that much noise on stage? :rolleyes:Tell him to leave the 18 home for a coffee table and don't mess with his brand new 4X10.

I'm an old guy though - I used to have a Galien Krueger head with a Peavey 1810 cab (an 18 and 2 10s in one cab :eek:). Got tired of lugging that beast a long time ago and got a Hartke 1155 combo (basically a HA3500C head with a 15 and a 5" tweeter). Now I've been eying up 12" combos. Not playing metal and it would be easier on my back ;)
 
You can rewire the cab, but I don't think it's worth the time. If it were me I would send the 4ohm cab back to replace with an 8ohm version.

For more volume on stage at ear level I vote for an 8x10. Bass has been my primary instrument for years. Volume is always an issue with lower frequencies.

I am a Hartke fan. I always have been. Now it seems that Hartke is beginning to dominate with the pro crowd. I own Ampeg gear, and my Hartke is still my "go-to".
 
In my opinion, an 18" woofer just creates a mess in low end on stage. Especially in small rehearsal rooms and venues. I was young when I thought that 1810 that tbird mentioned, was a good idea. Took only a few years of lugging that crap around before I moved to a dual 15 and a 2-12 Hartke. Then, I had a power amp go DC on me, and fried the 15" JBL's. Had to run at full range through the little 2-12 for a gig. I realized then, that my tone was much clearer with the smaller speakers. Of course, to keep up with a hard hitting drummer, I had to add 4 more 12's. But the clarity is much better with smaller drivers, in quantity. You gotta move air, but that don't mean that large drivers are necessary to do it. Unless you are playing with a 5/6 string bass, and the genre calls for brutal subs from a bass guitar, get rid of that 18" waste of space. 18" speakers are for large rooms where wall shaking is cool. Or for larger venue subs. Not really for good bass tone, IMO.
 
He's only gonna be able to rewire a 4ohm cab to 16ohm... I agree though, completely pointless. Go for the 8ohm version and add another of the same 8ohm 410 cabs, or just go with the 4ohm and have be. "I think he is an idiot"... The guy IS an idiot.
 
somegeezer said:
He's only gonna be able to rewire a 4ohm cab to 16ohm... I agree though, completely pointless. Go for the 8ohm version and add another of the same 8ohm 410 cabs, or just go with the 4ohm and have be. "I think he is an idiot"... The guy IS an idiot.
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I'm not sure what the ohm rating is for each speaker in the 4 ohm cab, but if each speaker is 4 ohms, couldn't you wire each two in series, giving you two sets of speakers wired at 8 ohms, and then send signal to the two sets in parallel?
 
cusebassman said:
I'm not sure what the ohm rating is for each speaker in the 4 ohm cab, but if each speaker is 4 ohms, couldn't you wire each two in series, giving you two sets of speakers wired at 8 ohms, and then send signal to the two sets in parallel?
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4*4ohm speakers can only be wired to a 4ohm or 16ohm load. If you want an 8ohm load in it, you would need 8ohm drivers.
 
cusebassman said:
I'm not sure what the ohm rating is for each speaker in the 4 ohm cab, but if each speaker is 4 ohms, couldn't you wire each two in series, giving you two sets of speakers wired at 8 ohms, and then send signal to the two sets in parallel?
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Well, in theory you could install a second terminal block, and connect two drivers wired in series to each terminal block. Each terminal block would then present an 8 ohm load to the amp.

However... there would be zero benefit because the amp will still be seeing a 4 ohm load. An 8 ohm cab is the only way for the bass player to achieve what he wants.

Paul
 
sorry I posted and was non-responsive, I thought I had subscribed. Thanks for the advice. When he brings the 4X10 over I am going to have to just help him figure it out, turns out the cab is actually 8 ohms, I hope he hasn't already cracked it open and started re wiring. I have learned soo much from being on this great forum, it drives me crazy that my band mates are so primitive when it comes to gear, they assume because that they have played guitar/bass for ten plus years they instinctively know all there is to know about all gear. I love em though, they are good musicians. I have a strict "don't touch my gear policy" I cherish everything I own and will not tolerate something being fucked up because of stupidity. Thanx for letting me vent, My wife looks at me like i'm a psycho when I try to explain any of this to her.
 
rockironwebb said:
turns out the cab is actually 8 ohms, I hope he hasn't already cracked it open and started re wiring. I have learned soo much from being on this great forum, it drives me crazy that my band mates are so primitive when it comes to gear, they assume because that they have played guitar/bass for ten plus years they instinctively know all there is to know about all gear. I love em though, they are good musicians. I have a strict "don't touch my gear policy" I cherish everything I own and will not tolerate something being fucked up because of stupidity. Thanx for letting me vent, My wife looks at me like i'm a psycho when I try to explain any of this to her.
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Oh dear, let's hope Mr Bass-man hasn't started "tweaking". The possibilities for catastrophe are huge! Just say he wired up all the drivers in parallel and voila! he's got a 2 ohm cabinet on his hands. :facepalm: Confiscate his soldering iron, slap him round the head with a wet towel and give him a triple-shot espresso. That should wake him up.

Those of us with wives know that look. You're among friends here.:D
 
OK all you guitar players out there, get a life (oh the bass amp is way tooo big, he won't need that many speakers, the amp will be way too loud) and let the bass player get a real amp. If the speakers and the amp impedance don't match get another amp and daisy chain the amps so there is one for each cab

Give me some Bass:
 

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just here to ditto the comments about ditching the 18".
I was looking at the same type of thing, a 4X10 and an 18. But the more I checked into it, the more I saw what a waste it was gonna be.
For BIG venues, sure go for it. But in my case, I was only gonna be looking at smaller clubs like 200 - 500 peoples.
We've got a gig lined up for about 6000 people but the PA is provided.

From a fellow bass player, tell him to forget the 18. Either another 4X10 or maybe what I did. A 1X15 and not only do I get good tone but it's loud as hell.
 
Dogbreath said:
just here to ditto the comments about ditching the 18".
I was looking at the same type of thing, a 4X10 and an 18. But the more I checked into it, the more I saw what a waste it was gonna be.
For BIG venues, sure go for it. But in my case, I was only gonna be looking at smaller clubs like 200 - 500 peoples.
We've got a gig lined up for about 6000 people but the PA is provided.

From a fellow bass player, tell him to forget the 18. Either another 4X10 or maybe what I did. A 1X15 and not only do I get good tone but it's loud as hell.
Click to expand...

The 15 is a waste too. And just mixing up cabs of different driver sizes can end up causing phasing issues. Unless of course, you have some kind of cutoff, where only certain frequencies are going to each cab. Then it could work pretty well.

Good that the cab ended up being 8ohm anyways. But I'd definitely urge him not to touch it. Why would he even want to now? I thought the reason was to get 4ohm to 8ohm? As we already mentioned is impossible. But now it's 8ohm anyways, surely he doesn't need to mess with it?
 
Dogbreath said:
while I respect your experience, I'd rather trust my ears. ;)
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Yeah, I agree to both actually. A bi-amped 15/2-10 sounds best to my ears overall. But for full range, same size drivers is better sounding. It really depends on what kind of sound you are after tho......
 
I suppose I should list my rig which gets a lot of good comment from both sound guys and other bass players (especially the ones that want to use it at multiple band shows).

I have an old Gallien Krueger RB800 head, which has 2 amps in it, a 300 watt at 4 ohm and a 100 watt at 8 ohm. There is a crossover that can be switched in.

I use 2 old EV TL 1 x 15" boxes with the EV 15" speakers still in them. I also have a 2 x 10" cab with Lorantz speakers. I plug the 2 TL cabs into the 300 watt amp (which is now running at 4 ohms) and the 2 x 10" cab into the 100 watt amp (running at 8 ohms). I have found that the rig actually sounds better if I bypass the crossover and run all the boxes full range.

There you go a good solid work horse set up 2 x 15s and 2 x 10s and 400 watts of amp. The rest of the sound is in the eq (which I run pretty much flat with the mid notch on the amp selected), that bass plugged into it (1974 fender Precision, 1989 Fender hollow body precision with fretless jazz neck, 1994 MIJ Fender Jazz fretless and sometimes a Ibanez BTB 5 string) and the playing technique.

15" speakers are fine for any gig, the problem is that a lot of players also crank up the bottom end on the amp, keep the amp bottom under control and move the air naturally and the bottom wont be a problem, I do like having a couple of 10s in there also. Not a big fan of 18's, even in PA subs. I should also say that I am actually not that loud on stage, the amp power is good for clean headroom, and having lots of cabs also lets them handle the bottom end without stress.

I do like the rig in the photo I posted but, RIP John Entwistle.

Alan.
 
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