Help me buy a guitar $1000

[muttley600]

Then you guys need to get with Gibson and tell them to quit giving false information. Because it's clearly stated on their website and I just did a simple copy and paste.

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-Studio-Mahogany.aspx

Just scroll down to where it says "Headstock Angle".

There is a ton of mis information out there. Sadly a LOT of it is promoted and propagated by major brands in an attempt to sell their products. This wouldn't be the first or last example of the industry making false claims and issuing over promises.

The relevant bit of physics you need to disprove it is below. I have cut and pasted an image of the expression of the way in which a vibrating string behaves. It is taken from research done by two highly eminent and regarded research physicists named V.E.Howle and Lloyd.N.Trefethen and is lifted directly from their paper entitled "Eigenvalues and musical instruments"

As you can see the expression makes no mention of variables for tension or break angle at the fixed points mostly because they do not come into play. It does very nicely and compactly describe how a vibrating string behaves both theoretically and in practice. I'm sure you'll agree this is a very nicely described model..

I'm also sure both you with your in depth read of the Gibsons advertising blurb and ReInventor with the wealth of research background and qualifications in musical acoustics and MT that he has will either be familiar with the paper or will find it easily accessible. I can provide a key to the terms employed but it shouldn't be needed as they are all commonly used in the world of mathematics and physics.

In the unlikely event that either of you find the expression a little hard to grasp I can talk you through it starting with the principles of mass and inertia and finishing with the impedance (Q) factor in relation to Youngs modulus in solid crystalline materials. Should take around 7 -10 years depending on your start point and aptitude for the subject.

Here you go....

 

[Milnoque]

I've been playing guitar for nearly 16 years now. I play a wide variety of music and the guitars I have are sub-professional, in need of major surgery (okay, just some fret crowning/replacing and possibly a pickup replacement for one).

I'm considering selling everything and getting one really fantastic guitar that is everything I've always wanted. Having a hard time finding guitars that meet my criteria - most notably a 25.5" scale neck with only 22 frets. Anyway, here's a list...none of which are negotiable.

Also, this needs to be a pro guitar. No cheap Chinese hardware, glue hog bodies, or shoddy finishes. For a grand, I think this is a reasonable request.

Basswood body - either a smooth superstrat shape or something less traditional - nothing pointy or sharp - classy, elegant, comfortable.

Maple neck/Rosewood fretboard thin and fast

25.5" scale length

22 jumbo frets

Tilted headstock (4x2 would be awesome, but I'm not that stubborn)

Fixed bridge

Dual humbuckers - medium/high output - modern, complex sound - not super hot (If the price came down to accommodate a swap I would consider)

No pickguard

Three way toggle switch

Push/pull coil tap (okay, so this one is optional, as I can install it with ease...but it's what I want).

Modern classy looks - no bat inlays or gothic cross truss rod covers (actually, no truss rod cover would be good too).

The G&L F-100 seems like it would be a great guitar for your consideration but it does not fill all your requirements. I don't believe they offer it in basswood although some are alder.

The scale is right as are the frets.
The headstock is not tilted but there is no problem with sustain.
Their dual fulcrum tremolo is standard but I have seen hardtail versions.
The G&L MFD humbuckers fit your description.
I believe the push/pull coil tap is standard.
The toggle is 5-way
The Deluxe model has a nice maple top and no pickguard.
There is no truss rod cover.

My Two Cents

 

[FoulPhil]

Well there you go. Like I said tell Gibson about it because I don't really give a shit.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Well there you go. Like I said tell Gibson about it because I don't really give a shit.

me either .... I couldn't care less but just for the sake of science and understanding think about it.
Now I don't have any fancy equations but I've tuned pianos for 35 years and the biggest problem new tuners have is what's called 'setting the pin' so the piano will stay in tune for more than a couple days. And all that 'setting the pin' really means is getting the tensions in the different sections of string to be about the same because if you end up with different tensions in the non-speaking sections of the string, it'll go out of tune as soon as you play it because a metal string under tension wants to have the same tension its' entire length unless clamped in some fashion. So when you play the piano and lets say the section from the capo to the tuning pin is at a higher tension than the speaking length; the hammers hit it and the tension equalizes which will change the tension in the speaking length and thus, its' pitch.

For a clamping nut like a floyd rose set up that wouldn't be true of course cause it's clamped in a way that doesn't allow that to happen.
But with a regular nut it's just not possible to have one tension in one part of the string and and different one somewhere else.

As for manufacturers telling bullshit ........ I saw one guitar ad where they talked about a beefier neck meaning tighter tension on the strings so better tone.
I don't care if you had a neck the thickness of a city block ....... the tension of the same string at the same pitch would be the same as the skinniest neck ever. Not even close to being true but there they were .... advertising it.

 

[FoulPhil]

I hear ya, but I don't think they are talking about just the part of the strings from the nut to the tuning keys. I think they are saying the entire length of the string. I'm more concerned with just playing the guitar. I only read the article on Gibson's website because I wanted to see what went in to making the guitar and what ever info they had on the guitar I own. I didn't have any requirements when I bought it and it's well above the standards that I have had in the past...

 

[muttley600]

I don't really give a shit.

In that case why post on the topic? Especially when you are just parroting a piece of sales speak you happened to have stumbled on and accepted without question.

Just for the record I wasn't posting a correction for your benefit in any case but for others that may stumble across this thread. Based on our previous discussions you can go fuck yourself for all I care.

 

[FoulPhil]

LOL Mutt. You're always a jack ass. I assumed that Gibson knows what they are talking about. You're just some guy on forums who bitches way too much and has too much time on his hands. Bitch to your momma because most of us have better things to do.

 

[muttley600]

LOL Mutt. You're always a jack ass. I assumed that Gibson knows what they are talking about. You're just some guy on forums who bitches way too much and has too much time on his hands. Bitch to your momma because most of us have better things to do.

Whatever dude as long as genuine folk don't stumble by here and take what you post as worth a shit my time has been well spent.

 

[muttley600]

Whatever dude as long as genuine folk don't stumble by here and take what you post as worth a shit my time has been well spent.

....and Gibson in common with many many big brand manufacturers would colour you dick gold if they thought it would sell one more instrument. I don't have to do that...Do you really believe all the advertising stuff you read?

 

[Zaphod B]

I don't know why the OP (or anyone else, for that matter) would ask a bunch of strangers on a BBS to do their research for them.

ReInventor, you know how to use Teh Google, I assume. Hopefully you're capable of finding your own answer, particularly since no one here has had your very specific requirement close to hand.

 

[FoulPhil]

What ever floats your boat, Mutt. Sounds a little self righteous to me. I don't really see you helping much. Because if some "genuine folk" come a long and are misinformed you're just going to be a dick head to them as well. If you think that is time well spent you need to find another hobby.

Gibson is considered a master of their craft by many although they aren't perfect. I know for a fact they make better guitars than you do

 

[ReInventor]

What's the point of a BBS if not to have other people do your research for you?

Seriously though, I've been browsing guitar manufacturers websites, visiting guitar shops, and talking with other musicians also. This is just another avenue. I'm having a hard time locating something I like, and wondered if someone else might have experience with something I've missed.

And the angled headstock thing. It's mainly aesthetic. I don't like straight ones. Feels like a design flaw to me. They require string trees and all the strings sit at a different angle. With an angled headstock, they're all nice and in line. Just feels better to me.

Does that formula take the guitar body itself into account? I'm not debating, just asking. It seems that more downward force on the nut would facilitate greater transfer of vibration from string to body (neck). Maybe it doesn't, but if it does, it could increase apparent sustain - not of the string itself, but of the guitar system as a whole - the output from the pickups, or the acoustic response of the instrument. Same thing with set necks vs. bolted necks. Maybe that's just marketing hype too. I dunno.

Basswood is nicely balanced, and sounds pleasing to me.

I have found ONE guitar that meets all my criteria. Actually it doesn't, it costs too much. So...as FoulPhil suggests, I'll play guitars like a madman until I find one that speaks to me.

My guess is that the thing to go will be the 22 frets, simply because nearly every guitar I've played with a 25.5" scale (that isn't a strat copy) has 24. 22 fret necks seem only to come in the 24.75" variety. Or I'll get a mahogany/maple Carvin.

 

[ReInventor]

Actually, in genuine interest, do you have a website Muttley? I'd like to see your work. I'm sure you'll say it will cost me more than a grand, but maybe I'll have you build me a guitar. With 22 frets of course.

Seriously, I'd like to see your work.

 

[FoulPhil]

I don't think he makes guitars hahahahaha

But I could be wrong. You may end up paying $1000 for a stick with some rubber bands tied on.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Actually, in genuine interest, do you have a website Muttley? I'd like to see your work. I'm sure you'll say it will cost me more than a grand, but maybe I'll have you build me a guitar. With 22 frets of course.

Seriously, I'd like to see your work.

Oh dude ....... he makes some awesome shit. He doesn't post pics 'cause I think this is a place he comes to get away from his biz but man, I have a few and some of them are just too beautiful for words.

 

[FoulPhil]

Oh dude ....... he makes some awesome shit. He doesn't post pics 'cause I think this is a place he comes to get away from his biz but man, I have a few and some of them are just too beautiful for words.

Yeah I head about his gay clients. They asked for one shaped like his weeny, but that makes it a very small guitar. So, small it's unplayable. It's the same problem his GF has

 

[Lt. Bob]

Yeah I head about his gay clients. They asked for one shaped like his weeny, but that makes it a very small guitar. So, small it's unplayable. It's the same problem his GF has

well it is that small but it's a ukulele.

 

[ReInventor]

Ok...I thought this thread had already degenerated about as far as possible.



I was wrong.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Ok...I thought this thread had already degenerated about as far as possible.



I was wrong.

hey man ..... good luck with the guitar search. I'm right with ya' on 24.75" scales. But one thing I do is on all my 24.75 gits I use one gauge higher in my strings. That pretty much takes care of the rubbery feel of the strings.

It sounds like you have good enough gits for right now ...... find what you really want and save up and get that. Even if it's more than you wanted to pay.
Every player should have at least one great instrument.

 

[muttley600]

Actually, in genuine interest, do you have a website Muttley? I'd like to see your work. I'm sure you'll say it will cost me more than a grand, but maybe I'll have you build me a guitar. With 22 frets of course.

Seriously, I'd like to see your work.

I'll PM you dude.

I keep fairly anon here for obvious reasons. I do mostly chill here and don't pull any punches. I have to do a bunch of that in real life.