maestro_dmc
Uses Paramedic EQ
ausrock said:
Why? I wanted it that way for a reason.
Why? I wanted it that way for a reason.
M
MikeA
New member
maestro_dmc said:
I think the point that ausrock was trying to make is that drums sound much better in a bigger room. There's more 'room' for the sound to develop in which will translate into a better sounding recording. If you've got your reasons for wanting the open space between the rooms, fine. He was simply trying to bring up another valid point to think about.
Wayne Bliss
New member
Thanks to All!
Great stuff folks,
John Sayer DID reply to my request for help. I attached a .gif for you to see. I'm going with his design because:
1) His design is light years ahead of mine
2) Logical layout and use of space
3) Running out of time to get started
Johns awesome, and I appreciate YOUR input about my space. Good luck with your projects; I think I'll go work on mine!
~Wayne
Great stuff folks,
John Sayer DID reply to my request for help. I attached a .gif for you to see. I'm going with his design because:
1) His design is light years ahead of mine
2) Logical layout and use of space
3) Running out of time to get started
Johns awesome, and I appreciate YOUR input about my space. Good luck with your projects; I think I'll go work on mine!
~Wayne
Attachments
maestro_dmc
Uses Paramedic EQ
Very nice.
Did you say whether you had vaulted ceilings?
My space does have the open ceiling in one half, I may want to enclose them if I consider something similar. Otherwise the room will definatley not be symmetrical.
Did you say whether you had vaulted ceilings?
My space does have the open ceiling in one half, I may want to enclose them if I consider something similar. Otherwise the room will definatley not be symmetrical.
S
stranglerfig
New member
I like the way that looks. Although I Question the fact if one really needs "2 studio rooms" I see 1 Control room and maybe 1 vocal booth and that's it.
Most of the footage i've seen have had an open sound/recording room except the vocal booth which was seperate. I think adding too many rooms might micromanage the sound too much IMO.
Your Thoughts?
Most of the footage i've seen have had an open sound/recording room except the vocal booth which was seperate. I think adding too many rooms might micromanage the sound too much IMO.
Your Thoughts?
Last edited:
Wayne Bliss
New member
yeah, maybe...
I could go with a larger recording space and use gobos to help with isolation. But I gotta tell you, I've been recording in very large rooms with gobos already and it's starting to get old. At most, maybe I could explore romoving one of the iso booths. But I have a need for isolation. Too dry is bad, your right. But I have a few tricks up my sleeve to achieve a more "open" reflective sound.
I'll take another look and ponder. Certainly having one less iso booth would cut down on cost...
~Wayne
I could go with a larger recording space and use gobos to help with isolation. But I gotta tell you, I've been recording in very large rooms with gobos already and it's starting to get old. At most, maybe I could explore romoving one of the iso booths. But I have a need for isolation. Too dry is bad, your right. But I have a few tricks up my sleeve to achieve a more "open" reflective sound.
I'll take another look and ponder. Certainly having one less iso booth would cut down on cost...
~Wayne
S
stranglerfig
New member
" But I have a few tricks up my sleeve to achieve a more "open" reflective sound."
Yea Hey Tell us what you have in mind! lol
I've never built a studio before and can only give a general opinion on what I think at the time is right or what may seem wrong. I only know from recording in other studios that "Most" of them were somewhat basic in design but sounded incredible because of the engineer/producer new how to get the sound they wanted.
I just dont feel making a seperate "Drum" room, "Guitar" Room, "Bass" room etc..is really needed..yet a great engineer can get whatever sound he wanted with a 8x8 Square Box! fuck it..what ever works eh??
Were talking about "Air" here in reality...
Yea Hey Tell us what you have in mind! lol
I've never built a studio before and can only give a general opinion on what I think at the time is right or what may seem wrong. I only know from recording in other studios that "Most" of them were somewhat basic in design but sounded incredible because of the engineer/producer new how to get the sound they wanted.
I just dont feel making a seperate "Drum" room, "Guitar" Room, "Bass" room etc..is really needed..yet a great engineer can get whatever sound he wanted with a 8x8 Square Box! fuck it..what ever works eh??
Were talking about "Air" here in reality...
ausrock
Well-known member
Meastro,
You do what you wish, I was only attempting to help you.
Wayne,
Glad to see that things worked out with JS, he really does know his shit.
Personally, I have a 20'x22' space which I realised 2 or 3 years ago would not work for me if I divided it up, so apart from taking steps to stop sound getting out or in, I work in an "open plan" studio with gobos, etc.........some samples from about 18 months ago can be heard here: http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2061&alid=-1
You do what you wish, I was only attempting to help you.
Wayne,
Glad to see that things worked out with JS, he really does know his shit.
Personally, I have a 20'x22' space which I realised 2 or 3 years ago would not work for me if I divided it up, so apart from taking steps to stop sound getting out or in, I work in an "open plan" studio with gobos, etc.........some samples from about 18 months ago can be heard here: http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2061&alid=-1
Wayne Bliss
New member
Howdy
Ausrock,
Thanks for the thoughts. I enjoyed your songs. I'll ponder making 2 instead of three iso booths so the drums are a little more live in the larger room. But for what I do, isolation sure would help.
Stranglerfig,
"air" is impotant to capture the essense of the whole kit. One way around this is to record a stereo track of the drums, send the signal out to a sound system and mic the room from a distance. It's artifical air, but it does wonders to liven up the drums. Oh no, it's only rock-n-roll but I like it, like it yes I do...
~Wayne
Ausrock,
Thanks for the thoughts. I enjoyed your songs. I'll ponder making 2 instead of three iso booths so the drums are a little more live in the larger room. But for what I do, isolation sure would help.
Stranglerfig,
"air" is impotant to capture the essense of the whole kit. One way around this is to record a stereo track of the drums, send the signal out to a sound system and mic the room from a distance. It's artifical air, but it does wonders to liven up the drums. Oh no, it's only rock-n-roll but I like it, like it yes I do...
~Wayne
S
stranglerfig
New member
"One way around this is to record a stereo track of the drums, send the signal out to a sound system and mic the room from a distance. It's artifical air, but it does wonders to liven up the drums."
Hey that's actually a cool idea! I really like Johns site, Very inspiring to watch others build their own studio!
Keep us updated on your progress. I'm very interested since we have similar space issues.
Hey that's actually a cool idea! I really like Johns site, Very inspiring to watch others build their own studio!
Keep us updated on your progress. I'm very interested since we have similar space issues.
Michael Jones
New member
Wayne:
I threw this design together for "Cross Studios" (An hr.c member).
While your dimensions aren't exactly the same as his, they're very similar.
I think it could be adapted well to fit your needs.
Look it over, and if you want something more specific, let me know, and I'll work it out with you.
I'm currently building a studio myself. You can see its progress here:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/Studio/Mainpage/MP-Carriage.htm
I threw this design together for "Cross Studios" (An hr.c member).
While your dimensions aren't exactly the same as his, they're very similar.
I think it could be adapted well to fit your needs.
Look it over, and if you want something more specific, let me know, and I'll work it out with you.
I'm currently building a studio myself. You can see its progress here:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/Studio/Mainpage/MP-Carriage.htm
Attachments
Wayne Bliss
New member
Thanks, Michael!
Wow! You're studio looks super. You've really put a lot of thought into it. I'm curious to see how you treat the inside. Without getting to specific, what kind of budget did you have to work with? I have a $10k budget.
I like your two-iso booth design as well. Thank you so much for the offer to help me. I've attached the skeleton dimensions that I originally sent John (Sayer). I very much like his three iso booth design, but I know it'll be a tight space as well. Your design has a much more open control room look. I can use it as an iso booth as well and monitor in headphones. If you have time and would like to skew the design you posted to my dimensions, I'll name my first grand child after you...
(you'll have to wait 20 years though!)
~Wayne
Wow! You're studio looks super. You've really put a lot of thought into it. I'm curious to see how you treat the inside. Without getting to specific, what kind of budget did you have to work with? I have a $10k budget.
I like your two-iso booth design as well. Thank you so much for the offer to help me. I've attached the skeleton dimensions that I originally sent John (Sayer). I very much like his three iso booth design, but I know it'll be a tight space as well. Your design has a much more open control room look. I can use it as an iso booth as well and monitor in headphones. If you have time and would like to skew the design you posted to my dimensions, I'll name my first grand child after you...
(you'll have to wait 20 years though!)
~Wayne
Attachments
Michael Jones
New member
I didn't see John's design. (I gotta start reading the whole post!)
It'd be hard to come up with something better than John's layout, but I'll re-draw the design I did to fit your dimensions if you like.
My studio is 1200 sq.ft. and I had budgeted $50/sq.ft for it; so that's a $60,000 budget. So far I've spent about $45,000.
That $50/sq.ft seems to be a good number for ground-up construction, if you're doing all the work.
You could get by with a lower budget if the structure is already there, and you're doing most of the work.
Your budget brings you in at around $25/sq.ft. Which, is probably do-able.
First, a few questions:
Have you looked into getting a permit to do this?
What sort of power exists in the garage right now? (Locations of all outlets)
Are there any windows?
Could your existing A/C and heat be modified to heat and cool the new space?
Where is the Air handler for the A/C - furnace?
Did you want to go with a separate A/C system for the studio?
Where's the breaker box for the electrical located?
What type of garage door is there right now?
Can you post some pics of the space?
That's all I can think of right now.
John's working out the acoustic treatments for me on my studio.
Treatments will range from slot resonators, to absorbtive pannels, to bass traps, to clouds, to false ceilings with hangers in them.... just a whole guantlet of acoustic treatments. Construction and installation of those will be an entire new project for me.
I've finished up the last of the audio wiring, and I have just a few pieces of rockwool to install, then I need an inspection on the insulation, and I can begin sheetrock. Following that, I'll begin the acoustic treatments.
I know you're anxious to get started, but this... the design and planning stage is cruicial!
It'd be hard to come up with something better than John's layout, but I'll re-draw the design I did to fit your dimensions if you like.
My studio is 1200 sq.ft. and I had budgeted $50/sq.ft for it; so that's a $60,000 budget. So far I've spent about $45,000.
That $50/sq.ft seems to be a good number for ground-up construction, if you're doing all the work.
You could get by with a lower budget if the structure is already there, and you're doing most of the work.
Your budget brings you in at around $25/sq.ft. Which, is probably do-able.
First, a few questions:
Have you looked into getting a permit to do this?
What sort of power exists in the garage right now? (Locations of all outlets)
Are there any windows?
Could your existing A/C and heat be modified to heat and cool the new space?
Where is the Air handler for the A/C - furnace?
Did you want to go with a separate A/C system for the studio?
Where's the breaker box for the electrical located?
What type of garage door is there right now?
Can you post some pics of the space?
That's all I can think of right now.
John's working out the acoustic treatments for me on my studio.
Treatments will range from slot resonators, to absorbtive pannels, to bass traps, to clouds, to false ceilings with hangers in them.... just a whole guantlet of acoustic treatments. Construction and installation of those will be an entire new project for me.
I've finished up the last of the audio wiring, and I have just a few pieces of rockwool to install, then I need an inspection on the insulation, and I can begin sheetrock. Following that, I'll begin the acoustic treatments.
I know you're anxious to get started, but this... the design and planning stage is cruicial!
maestro_dmc
Uses Paramedic EQ
ausrock said:Maestro,
You do what you wish, I was only attempting to help you.
I know, I really do! I apologize,
I typed that response in extreme haste in a free moment at work. I really appreciate your taking the time to point those things out, I honestly only wanted to know the thinking behind your comments, which I now understand. I'm at home now and can take all the time I need to type. 
I have now worked out a plan that follows most of your advice, and I quite like it. The control room will have the same basic shape, (I may still add that 12 degree off parallel angle to the side walls). The extra space I wanted in the open area is now in the isolation rooms instead, which will give me great flexibility there. I can't post the drawing right now.
I am planning on building double studded walls on a 2x6 base, with sound absorbing board and two layers of sheetrock on each side, as well as the doors being doubled.
My outside walls are not very thick right now, the original studs with siding nailed on in the 1930's style, and a 1/2" layer of stucco over that. I am still working out what I will do to the inside of those walls.
I have picked up the book "How To Build A Small Budget Recording Studio From Scratch: 3rd Edition" By F. Alton Everest. I want to understand all the implications of each choice I make as I go along. This book is a wealth of information and will remain on my shelf as a reference tool long after this is built.
I do want to do it right the first time, I tend to get impatient with myself when the ideas I've spent so much time thinking about turn out to be wrong! At the same time, I want to get things rolling, I'm not getting any younger here.
ausrock
Well-known member
Maestro,
None of us are getting any younger..........it took me 35 yrs to realise the dream of being able to record me and my guitar
.
OK, I had typed out a lengthy reply and lost it all, so this will be briefer. I have done an overdraw of your design, based on...... 1) it is generally accepted that a control room is better being longer front to back than it's width and the need for symmetry, 2) the need to increase booth sizes. This is only a very basic suggestion and would need considerable refining but it may give you some further food for thought.
The red lines represent walls, the blue are windows and the black are doors. An alternative for access to the vocal booth would be to replace the window from the control room with a door (or pair of), either discarding the doors between the booths or leaving them in place.
A suggested plan of attack..........get your floor plan sorted out, this way you should know of any access points for electricity, plumbing, etc., at the same time give serious consideration to sheeting the inside of the existing structure, walls and roof area using rockwool between the wall studs and sealing any possible cracks that could be a weak point for sound to escape. Plan on building the control room and booths inside AND NOT attached to the existing walls (small boxes inside a big box). If the work to the existing walls is satisfactory, it is possible that you may not have to sheet the outside of the new wall frames, just pack the void with rockwool prior to sheeting the inside, obviously, sheeting both sides will give even better sound isolation.
When working with an existing and limiting structure, there are always going to be compromises between what we would like to do and what it is possible to do. Ultimately, the first priority is always attempting to maintain the integrity of the acoustics.
As I said before, I would seriously suggest posting over at John Sayer forum, as you will get excellent advice from people who have been there and done (or are still doing) that.......it may take time to get a reply but it is usually worth the wait.
None of us are getting any younger..........it took me 35 yrs to realise the dream of being able to record me and my guitar
.OK, I had typed out a lengthy reply and lost it all, so this will be briefer. I have done an overdraw of your design, based on...... 1) it is generally accepted that a control room is better being longer front to back than it's width and the need for symmetry, 2) the need to increase booth sizes. This is only a very basic suggestion and would need considerable refining but it may give you some further food for thought.
The red lines represent walls, the blue are windows and the black are doors. An alternative for access to the vocal booth would be to replace the window from the control room with a door (or pair of), either discarding the doors between the booths or leaving them in place.
A suggested plan of attack..........get your floor plan sorted out, this way you should know of any access points for electricity, plumbing, etc., at the same time give serious consideration to sheeting the inside of the existing structure, walls and roof area using rockwool between the wall studs and sealing any possible cracks that could be a weak point for sound to escape. Plan on building the control room and booths inside AND NOT attached to the existing walls (small boxes inside a big box). If the work to the existing walls is satisfactory, it is possible that you may not have to sheet the outside of the new wall frames, just pack the void with rockwool prior to sheeting the inside, obviously, sheeting both sides will give even better sound isolation.
When working with an existing and limiting structure, there are always going to be compromises between what we would like to do and what it is possible to do. Ultimately, the first priority is always attempting to maintain the integrity of the acoustics.
As I said before, I would seriously suggest posting over at John Sayer forum, as you will get excellent advice from people who have been there and done (or are still doing) that.......it may take time to get a reply but it is usually worth the wait.
Attachments
Wayne Bliss
New member
More info for Michael
First, a few questions:
Q)Have you looked into getting a permit to do this?
A)No, I'm hoping to avoid that process. Since it's a free standing room(s) within a room, the garage could easily be converted back to a regualr garage in the event (God forbid!) that we sell the house.
Q)What sort of power exists in the garage right now? (Locations of all outlets)
A)Outlets are an issue. I only have two one for each of the garage door openers. Someone told me to add a 30 amp separate breaker in my panel box.
Q)Are there any windows?
A)No windows, but PLENTY of leakage. I'll have to plug all those before contruction begins.
Q)Could your existing A/C and heat be modified to heat and cool the new space?
A)I believe I could do that. However, it never gets too cold in the Pacific Northwest. And I won't be heating all iso booths all the time. I've had good success with oil filled raditors. Our family room sits on the same concrete slab in the next room and it heats the space great. Plus, the oil furnace is silent operation. Don't know about the summers yet. I don't know if it'll get warm or not...
Q)Where is the Air handler for the A/C - furnace?
A)No AC in the furnace.
Q)Did you want to go with a separate A/C system for the studio?
A)I don't think so...
Q)Where's the breaker box for the electrical located?
A)Excellent thought. It is in the garage so I need to make sure one of the iso booths has access to it. It's on the opposite wall from the gas furnace (looking at the scheme, its' on the left wall)
Q)What type of garage door is there right now?
A)Two garage doors. They pull up with garage door pulley systems one on each door.
Q)Can you post some pics of the space?
A)My wife and I are currently having a storage shed(yard crap) built in the bacjyard. Then we have to put some of her teaching supplies into a monthly storage facility. Then we haul what's left to the dump. Until then, the pictures wouldn't do any good. I WILL post once the other tasks are completed. I'm shooting for the middle of August..
First, a few questions:
Q)Have you looked into getting a permit to do this?
A)No, I'm hoping to avoid that process. Since it's a free standing room(s) within a room, the garage could easily be converted back to a regualr garage in the event (God forbid!) that we sell the house.
Q)What sort of power exists in the garage right now? (Locations of all outlets)
A)Outlets are an issue. I only have two one for each of the garage door openers. Someone told me to add a 30 amp separate breaker in my panel box.
Q)Are there any windows?
A)No windows, but PLENTY of leakage. I'll have to plug all those before contruction begins.
Q)Could your existing A/C and heat be modified to heat and cool the new space?
A)I believe I could do that. However, it never gets too cold in the Pacific Northwest. And I won't be heating all iso booths all the time. I've had good success with oil filled raditors. Our family room sits on the same concrete slab in the next room and it heats the space great. Plus, the oil furnace is silent operation. Don't know about the summers yet. I don't know if it'll get warm or not...
Q)Where is the Air handler for the A/C - furnace?
A)No AC in the furnace.
Q)Did you want to go with a separate A/C system for the studio?
A)I don't think so...
Q)Where's the breaker box for the electrical located?
A)Excellent thought. It is in the garage so I need to make sure one of the iso booths has access to it. It's on the opposite wall from the gas furnace (looking at the scheme, its' on the left wall)
Q)What type of garage door is there right now?
A)Two garage doors. They pull up with garage door pulley systems one on each door.
Q)Can you post some pics of the space?
A)My wife and I are currently having a storage shed(yard crap) built in the bacjyard. Then we have to put some of her teaching supplies into a monthly storage facility. Then we haul what's left to the dump. Until then, the pictures wouldn't do any good. I WILL post once the other tasks are completed. I'm shooting for the middle of August..