help in choosing keyboard/controller

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steve67535

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I'm thinking about getting one of the yamaha keyboards....It is one that has sounds built in and a midi in and a midi out....Can keyboards like this also be used to play a softsynth...can you bypass the internal sounds and use it strictly as a midi controller to play synths on your computer?...if so is it hard to set up.....the price is reasonable..considering I am just starting out in the "midi world".....around 150-200$.....any advice would be appreciated

thanks

steve
 
Steve,

First off, welcome to the forum! I'm fairly new here too.

It's always helpful when you're asking a technical question to give as much specific detail as possible about your situation. Without it, it's difficult for anyone to give meaningful advice to you. So, tell us model numbers, what software you're using, what soundcard you have, speed and memory of your computer, etc. The more we know, the more precise our answers will be.

That said, in general, if a keyboard has a midi out on it, you should be able to use it to control any other midi device that has a midi in. The extent of that control is going to vary depending on the MIDI implementation of each device.

Bypassing the internal sounds could be accomplished simply by reducing the volume control of the keyboard either on the instrument itself or, if you're using one, at the mixer. Many keyboards have a "Local Control Off" feature, that allows the synth to ignore messages coming from the keyboard.

To find out exactly what the keyboard you're considering can do regarding MIDI, try to get its MIDI implenetation chart. It's usually in the back of the owner's manual or available on the manufacturer's web site.

Though I've been playing for years, I don't claim to be an expert on this stuff. I check this forum and many others out all the time to gain a better understanding of, what can be, a confusing subject. If anything I say here is wrong, please let me know. I want to be educated.

Ted
 
steve67535 said:
I'm thinking about getting one of the yamaha keyboards....It is one that has sounds built in and a midi in and a midi out....Can keyboards like this also be used to play a softsynth...can you bypass the internal sounds and use it strictly as a midi controller to play synths on your computer?...if so is it hard to set up.....the price is reasonable..considering I am just starting out in the "midi world".....around 150-200$.....any advice would be appreciated

thanks

steve
Click to expand...

Yup you can do it. You would have to have a sound card that has midi i/o on it (like the audiophile 2496) to be able to use it as a midi controller for softsynths. I used to do this with an old DX-7 but decided that it was to big to keep on my desk, so I ended up getting a small M-Audio Oxygen 8 controller that uses USB instead.
 
thanks for the help

Thanks. I downloaded the manuals of several of the keyboards that I have been looking at...and they all seem to have the local control thing to turn off the keyboards internal sounds.. the yamaha psr290 looks like it is probably the best one..but also the most expensive at a little over 200$. Several casio models that also have the local control on/off are around 150-175$. The oxygen 8 which is a controller looks very cool I checked that out and that's not too expensive either. I guess anything would work as long as it has midi in and out....and the keyboard has a half way decent "feel" to the keys....Getting the manuals really helped alot..it explained alot of things that I wanted to know about....and a few i didn't think of...lol

Steve
 
what about after touch

my casio ctk 481 doesn't have any "expression" they are sharp blocks of sound (midi)-no gradual tailing off of sound or volume "control" i end up creating a volume envelope in sonar to control volume
do i need a better keyboard or can i program it to have feel
 
Well, I can't claim any expertise on this board, but from what I can tell, it doesn't boast touch sensitivity among its limited feature set.

This looks like a pretty basic keyboard and, in general, I don't think anything from Casio would be considered "professional" (whatever that means). If your budget is really tight these inexpensive boards from Casio and Yamaha can be a place to start, but you'll probably outgrow them quickly. (As you're finding out apparently.)

How much can you spend? There are a lot of good solutions out there if you just take some time and do the research. For instance, last year, I picked up a cool little analog modeling synth from Redsound called the Darkstar XP at Guitar Center when they were closing them out for $129.00. Read lots of reviews and keep your eyes open for close-outs. Oftentimes, last years models sell for a fraction of their original price and offer amazing usability.

The other thing to consider is what kind of sounds are you looking for? That synth I bought will be almost useless for someone trying to create orchestral music on their computer. They'd be better off with a sampler or a rompler. Conversely, if you're into dance or hip-hop you'd probably not find a sampler as useful as a beat box.

If you have a fast computer, you should look very seriously at a controller keyboard, sequencer and soft-synth solution. There are so many low-priced or free soft-synths out there you could keep yourself busy for a long time with them all. This method gives you the most bang-for-the-buck by far-especially since you already have SONAR.

Hope this helps. Let us know what you get.

Ted
 
vestast said:
The M-Audio Oxygen 8 controller is in fact touch sensitive, if your considering that route.

:)
Click to expand...

2 octaves are a joke and its impossible to play any kind of real keyboard parts on it.

Buy a used synth would be a better route for the money because you will get a decent keybed and aftertouch response as well.
 
brzilian said:
2 octaves are a joke and its impossible to play any kind of real keyboard parts on it.

Buy a used synth would be a better route for the money because you will get a decent keybed and aftertouch response as well.
Click to expand...

Ya I saw you post that before. For me though space is an issue so I prefer having the small controller. Sort of a trade off I guess.

Cheers.
 
thanks for the advice guys

Thanks...after some more reading I think I changed my mind on the yamaha keyboard....it does sound like a midi controller keyboard would work lots better....and they are not all that expensive.....the edirol pcr 50 is pretty cool.....the oxygen 8 is too but I have read alot of posts in other forums where people say that after awhile it does leave you wanting more keys....What are your opinions on midi controllers..as far as...brands that are decent......edirol?.....how about..midiman?...I really have no idea....both seem to be popular....with midiman being a bit cheaper on most of the price checks I have done over the last few days...There is so much stuff to learn..If I would have bought a keyboard right away without asking some questions and doing some research I think I would have got one that I would have realized was not what I really wanted soon after the purchase....lol..I guess you have to be carefull huh?


thanks again for all the advice....it defenitely explained some things that I had no clue about....lol
steve
 
steve67535 said:
Thanks...after some more reading I think I changed my mind on the yamaha keyboard....it does sound like a midi controller keyboard would work lots better....and they are not all that expensive.....the edirol pcr 50 is pretty cool.....the oxygen 8 is too but I have read alot of posts in other forums where people say that after awhile it does leave you wanting more keys....What are your opinions on midi controllers..as far as...brands that are decent......edirol?.....how about..midiman?...I really have no idea....both seem to be popular....with midiman being a bit cheaper on most of the price checks I have done over the last few days...There is so much stuff to learn..If I would have bought a keyboard right away without asking some questions and doing some research I think I would have got one that I would have realized was not what I really wanted soon after the purchase....lol..I guess you have to be carefull huh?


thanks again for all the advice....it defenitely explained some things that I had no clue about....lol
steve
Click to expand...

I know I'd be pretty frustrated by only 25 keys. The only way I could work with it is if I was using it exclusively for bass.

Steve, you MUST go somewhere and play the different controllers. Price is only one factor. Feel is what matters most to me. I really don't have much experience with these controllers. I think I've probably touched them and moved quickly on because I was unimpressed. For me, as a piano player, I really like a weighted keyboard, but the ones from Studiologic or Fatar are probably more than you want to spend. On the other hand, I bought a Yamaha KX88 18 years ago and I still love it to this day, probably the best equipment purchase I ever made. Worth every penny.

Let us know what you ultimately get and how you like it. One of my next purchases will likely be another controller- either a keyboard or a control surface, I haven't decided which yet. I can use you as my guinea pig! ;)

Ted
 
Very true...Actually playing one would be the best way to see how they "feeL"..I will have to see if we have any dealers in Milwaukee....I live in a small town so I doubt if I could get anything locally..I think there might be an edirol dealer in Madison also...That would also be an option.


Steve
 
Steve-

I recently bought the M-Audio Radium 61 (61 keys) and have been very happy with it. The velocity was a little "squishy" at first, but you can easily change the settings to whatever works for you.

I use it to lay down midi tracks that drive soft synths for bass, piano/organ, and drums sounds. It's amazing to consider the depth/breadth of music and sounds you can create with a $200 midi keyboard and a few hundred bucks worth of software. Makes you realize how truly talented guys like Pete Townshend are/were with the limited gear they had at the time...
 
m audio...

Yes....I looked at several m-audio keyboard controllers...200 is not bad at all...That would be right in the price range that I am looking at....I gotta just go out and get a controller...lol....The more I work with midi/audio the more I realize how bad I need one....Some stuff you can do with a "virtual" keyboard..like..mousekeyboard...but....To really get into it you definitely need a "real" one....I gotta take the plunge at buy a softsynth to...Now all I am using are demo's and freeware......

Steve
 
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