Help a noob out-- want to mic my amp and record on PC

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arjun

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Ok, so I'm absolutely new to the home recording scene. I'm a high school student, and I don't have much money. I've been playing guitar for 3 years, and I'm finally looking into good quality sound recording, for my computer. I am very good with computers, but I haven't dove into recording much yet. I have a crappy lil Peavy Blazer 158 15-watt amp.. that's my only amp. For guitars I have a Squier Strat and my acoustic is a Seagull S6+cutaway burst finish. I've recently been using a crappy $10 computer mic, my amp, and Sonic Foundry's Sound Forge 5.0 to record simple stuff onto my computer. I want to take this to the next level.

First off, I definitely need a better amp, and I'm looking for something in the $350-500 range. I want good tone, but also good sound with distortion for punk and rock music. It should be pretty loud too, since I plan on performing with it at my school with friends. If you think I don't need a new amp first, then I'm cool with that.

Next, I need to know what sort of equipment I should buy for the recording end. I've heard that the Shure SM57 is a good mic for guitar amps? Also, I'd like a vocal mic.. and this is where the problem comes in: How do I plug in both mics, mix them, and provide enough power to my sound card for recording? Should I get an analog external mixing board (like 4-6 channels)? And then does that need any amplification for the mics, or can it go directly from the mixer to the line in on my sound card? I know nothing about mic'ing and recording, so I'd really appreciate any help. Another thing, what software do you recommend for recording? I'm not looking for too much effects, I just want good software which does provide ample room for more advanced stuff later on.

I might have other questions that arise, but I hope you all could answer some of these first.

Thanks in advance, I really appreciate it! :)
 
Get a Schure SM-58 or 57 and don't pay any more than $70.00 for it(new) They'll last forever unless you beat it with a hammer. Also, if you have $500.00 for an amp, make sure you get a tube amp. You won't regret it.
 
1rst off all...
WELCOME TO THE FORUM :)

You're on the right track here. Always keep in mind this is a good question should be. Clear & explaining !!!

Okay, back to bussines. Yess, you may wan't bigger/louder amp. Marshall is one of my favorite for dist/driven sound. Shure SM57 is the must have mic for recording guitars. You may want to get some more when you get there next level... 57 is what you need to start. Yess, you need external mixer. Mackie VLZ Pro 1202 can do if you afford. It also provide mic's preamp to boost your mic's signal to average recording line level. Route the mixer's output to LINE IN (...if you use regular Sound Card like SBLive!...) Don't use MIC IN. Trust me, the difference would be like night and day. Shure SM58 Beta would be good for start recording and gig purpose... Like I said, you're on the right track so far... :D
 
Thanks for the welcome :)

Alright, thanks to both of you so far. I will look into a new amp. The only reason I think I can spend $500 is because my parents will pay for part of the price. I only possess $338 right now, so I will need to save up for a bit, in order to get a new amp, and recording gear. Anyone else have amp opinions?

So the SM57 is what I want.. James Argo, I dunno about the Mackie VLZ Pro 1202. I just checked it out, it's a little too much for me right now; I can't afford it and it's just got more than I need. Any other suggestions? Remember this is just to start off, I can always get better later, when I finally am old enough for a job! (summer of '03)

Thanks!
 
welcome to bbs

hi and welcome to this awesome forumn. ive gott some great suggestions that will get you up and running wright away with the 300 bucks you already have. ok heres what id do, buy a zoom 606 effects pedal which has way to many awesome sounds to list, and best of all only costs like 99 bucks, this way you dont need to buy a mixer, i just run mine line in and it sounds great. and then you can always upgrade to a mixer later on, and this way when you go to school you can take the little amp you already have and it will sound huge with the zoom plugged into it. im guessing since you mentioned that your still in school you like the newer music and the zoom 606 has you covered with all the sounds distortion delay chorus wah wah compresion and best of all it comes with znr zoom noise reduction which will quiet noisy hot rod pickups down. as far as multitrack recording software i have sonar 2.0 xl and cakewalk pro 9 as well but to get started with a good system for low bucks try n-track it only cost 40 bucks and it works very well and they have a free demo you can try out. i wish you the best of luck with you purchases and ive found expensive isnt always better but you do get what you pay for. just my 2 cents worth hope it was helpful in some way. thanks for posting tim pate. p.s let us know what you get.
 
Go for the tube amp. Your parents will be proud of you.
 
Re: welcome to bbs

flash2ace said:
hi and welcome to this awesome forumn. ive gott some great suggestions that will get you up and running wright away with the 300 bucks you already have. ok heres what id do, buy a zoom 606 effects pedal which has way to many awesome sounds to list, and best of all only costs like 99 bucks, this way you dont need to buy a mixer, i just run mine line in and it sounds great. and then you can always upgrade to a mixer later on, and this way when you go to school you can take the little amp you already have and it will sound huge with the zoom plugged into it. im guessing since you mentioned that your still in school you like the newer music and the zoom 606 has you covered with all the sounds distortion delay chorus wah wah compresion and best of all it comes with znr zoom noise reduction which will quiet noisy hot rod pickups down. as far as multitrack recording software i have sonar 2.0 xl and cakewalk pro 9 as well but to get started with a good system for low bucks try n-track it only cost 40 bucks and it works very well and they have a free demo you can try out. i wish you the best of luck with you purchases and ive found expensive isnt always better but you do get what you pay for. just my 2 cents worth hope it was helpful in some way. thanks for posting tim pate. p.s let us know what you get.
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hi there.. i understand what you've recommended me, but that doesn't include a mic option, right? i already have a boss mt-2 metal zone pedal, and it kicks ass to say the least. right now i am only concerned with miking my amp to achieve the best possible sound without upgrading my amp or guitar. soo, i've checked out the zoom 606, and it seems that the digitech rp200 is in the same price range ($150); how does the digitech stack up to the zoom? but anyway, since my main concern is recording vocals and guitar with mics, how would i go about doing that with the zoom? the zoom is just another effects pedal, and it doesn't have mic in, does it? i think i really want a mixer and mic right now, even if i have to give up using all those efx. i'd rather get recording equip now, so i can get some songs recorded well, so that i can show them to friends and possibly start a band. fx are not important for me at this point, but thanks for your suggestions. if i misunderstood your post, please let me know.

thanks, and any further suggestions are welcome :)

edit: the reason i really want to record with a mic instead of line in is because i've tried line in with my current equipment, and it sounded like crap. granted it would probably sound better with a zoom 606, still many people on this board say that you can't beat the sound of miking a cab.
 
hixmix said:
Go for the tube amp. Your parents will be proud of you.
Click to expand...

do you have a suggestion for a good tube amp no more than $600?

thanks :)
 
arjun said:


do you have a suggestion for a good tube amp no more than $600?

thanks :)
Click to expand...

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...53491024/search/g=guitar/detail/base_id/34512

Fender tone is extremely nice but a very specific sound. trebley and twangy but sounds a little funky with metal distortion. Another thing to think about before splurging yours and your parents money though, is what is it to be used for?

If you want versatility, I'd look for a used Mesa Maverick. Usually clock in that price vicinity.

http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data/Mesa_Boogie/Maverick_1x12_Combo-01.html

good luck,

milesmaxwell
 
milesmaxwell said:
Another thing to think about before splurging yours and your parents money though, is what is it to be used for?
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this amp will be used for my normal practicing, along with performances i may do at school (small school, not very big room). now that you mention it, one of my friends has a fender hot rod deluxe, maybe i'll stop by her house and try it out on my guitar, see if i like it. btw i play mainly punk and some rock. so distortion is something i like to use. i like to play clean though too.

*arjun
 
I think the Laney LC15 amp might be a good choice. It's a tube amp and believe me, it sure is loud for a 15 watter! I'm using it in my band practice sessions at a studio. The sound cuts through everything loud and clear. Plus it has a line out so you can connect it direct to a mixer / PA system(for shows) or I think you can do direct recording to your pc too. To me it sounds great. Very versatile amp and since you have a MetalZone pedal, hook it up together and it's metal mayhem for you!
 
I've been playing for close to twenty years, but I just entered the world of PC recording spring of last year. If your strictly making demos, buy an SM57. You can use it to mike your guitar amp or acoustic guitar and it will function as a suitable vocal mike (don't let the technically advanced try to convince you otherwise - you're just starting out and on a budget). Buy a boom stand to use with the SM57 and a set of headphones to monitor with. As to getting the signal into the PC, when I started, I used my soundblaster type card with the 1/8" jacks. To do this, you'll need a XLR-1/4" transformer and then a 1/4" - 1/8" adapter. Plug into the "Line In" jack and not the "Mic" jack. With this method you can only record one source at once, but that's probably what you want to do. Record the guitar tracks first and then the vocals separately. I moved up to an maudio Omni Studio and Delta 66 soundcard last fall but this is probably out of your price range right now. Any soundcard with a breakout box will allow multiple inputs. Lastly, play around with the amp sounds and mike placement. I have a Fender Princeton, a Marshall and a Vox, but I can get some great tones out of my little Fender Sidekick with an 8" speaker and miked with the SM57(I guess that also depends on your style of music). BTW, I use Cakewalk Guitar Pro but I started out using a program called Internet Tapedeck. It's limited to 8 tracks but it's very flexible and I think I got it for free from downloads.com. Experiment, and most of all, have fun. Good luck!
 
arjun said:


btw i play mainly punk and some rock. so distortion is something i like to use. i like to play clean though too.

*arjun
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aahhh. in that case, uckfey the fender. I'd find a Mesa combo (save the Blue Angel, bad reviews) or maybe even one of the Valvestate Marshalls. I don't think they're tube but they should fit into your price range and give you a pretty great colored punk sound with clean versatility...
 
twincop, thanks for the rundown. i'll probably end up doing something like that soon. my only question is that you don't recommend using an external mixer, where i could blend the sound beforehand, and then it would enter/record on the pc as one track, but a little bit easier than recording separate vocal and guitar tracks? there would be less ability to do efx since both vocals and guitar are mixed, but a lot of the times i don't care for effects.

milesmaxwell, well i do play mostly punk, but some people consider the stuff i play to be pop-punk/emo.. that sort of stuff. although i will also be playing hardcore punk, since one of my friends is really into that sort of stuff. as far as the amps go.. is this one of the marshalls you were talking about: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...5233603814/search/g=home/detail/base_id/49392 ? oh yeah, if you want an idea of what kind of sound i want, check out any of the songs on The Starting Line's new CD, it's called Say It Like You Mean It. Good songs to check out are: Up & Go, Left Coast Envy. thanks if you spend the time to check their sound out.

this whole amp hunting is making me crazy... :D i'm so impatient and i want a new amp now!! hehe.. thanks again for all your help everyone, i very much appreciate it.
 
arjun said:
twincop, thanks for the rundown. i'll probably end up doing something like that soon. my only question is that you don't recommend using an external mixer, where i could blend the sound beforehand, and then it would enter/record on the pc as one track, but a little bit easier than recording separate vocal and guitar tracks? there would be less ability to do efx since both vocals and guitar are mixed, but a lot of the times i don't care for effects.

You need multitrack recording software. Sound Forge is basically great for mastering to stereo, but I wouldn't recommend it for tracking (recording). Programs like Cakewalk Guitar Pro usually come with "plug-ins" or effects that can be added after you've recorded a track. I don't use an external mixer because Guitar Pro is set up like a mixer. I just "mouse mix" or use the mouse to operate the board displayed on my monitor. Track everything individually. This way you have more options when you mix. Remember, when you mix as you track you lose the ability to make changes later. Concentrate on getting the best signal possible into your PC and then add effects later. Vocals are going to require some effects such compression, reverb and EQ at least to sound the way you hear them in your head, so don't avoid effects totally.

Try this link for Internet Tapedeck: http://download.com.com/3000-2170-10138139.html?tag=lst-0-1

This is a great multitrack program for starting out, easy to use and free.

Here's what I've done with my simple setup:
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/432/chris_noga.html

I know others can do much better (and pardon my vocals, they're not the greatest) but this is what a novice can do after lots of playing and experimenting.
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thanks

alright, i pretty much got all the info i need for the recording end.. thanks to you twincop and everyone else. i now only have one more question---i have decided to definitely buy a new amp first, the question is which one. someone said that i shouldn't get a fender tube (such as hot rod deluxe) because i play almost all punk rock (85%), hard rock (10%), and occasionally modern metal (5%). i talked to a few people and they said marshall is the way to go for me and my kinda sound. also, marshall makes what seems to be a nice tubeless amp for $429: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...5233885033/search/g=home/detail/base_id/59645 do you think that would suit my needs well? or should i go with one of marshall's tube amps: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...5233885033/search/g=home/detail/base_id/49392

which of those two amps do you think would be better for me? i'm leaning to the tubeless amp, because people have said that for the music i wanna play, i don't need the extra tone that tube amp provides, and i don't plan on playing classic rock or blues... so, let me know. thanks!

*tsx :)
 
If you'll accept a little more advice, take your guitar and go down to a Sam Ash or Guitar Center or whatever music shop you frequent. Plug in and play (anything but "Stairway to Heaven"). Spend some time experimenting. You'll answer your own question. It's really the best way since everyone had his or her own idea about tone. That's also the best way to develop your own sound. If you want to sound like everyone else, save your pennies and buy a Line 6 Flextone. It models 32 different amps in one. Good luck and keep us posted on the results.
 
twincop, i will do what you said, i have a few different guitar places around here. but anyway, when you say "if you want to sound like everyone else" get a flextone... i'm assuming that's a good amp, but that everyone has one? i would rather have my own sound as you said, but i was a little confused as to what you mean by that statement. i'll let you all know how my decision goes. thanks!
 
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