help a newb with his first reel to reel & mixer setup?

jeancoltrane

New member
hey guys, i'll try to give you a little background on my story and how i came to be here. i've been playing guitar for years now, recording in nice studios and recording myself on a low end digital setup at home. ive never really been happy with the guitar sound (or any of the other instrument sounds for that matter) even in the nicer studios. it always seemed a bit too clean & harsh, no matter what external processing was done.

fast forward to a few months ago i decided to dig out an old sony tc 355 that was decaying in my girlfriends basement. i found some tape laying around that turned out to be 30 year old recordings of my girlfriends now deceased father, and they sounded unusually good. quite the surprise for both my girlfriend and i! this really piqued my interest, and i decided to search out some tape to try to record on. i eventually found some old opera tapes at a yard sale and decided to do the world a favour and try to record over them ;) the tc 355 was in really bad shape, with it literally falling apart and only one of the channels working - needless to say i was very surprised that a test recording with just a radio shack mic produced a guitar sound that was so natural and true to what i heard in the room. heres a recording of the first test if anyone is interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJrDzgqgM_k

after the first few experiments i realized tape is what ive been missing all these years. luckily, we also had a teac 2340 with simul sync in the basement, untouched for many years. we couldnt get it to run at all, but the preamps and electronics sounded great. with the help of this forums archives, i realized it was likely just a bad switch on one of the tape guides that engages the capstan. so off it went for servicing, and it returned in excellent shape recently.

rewind about 6 years ago, i found an audio technica rmx 64 mixer/cassette recorder covered in dust in an old warehouse rehearsal facility. it looked like a piece of junk to me at the time, so i gave it to a friend who relayed to me that it still worked & sounded great. hes been using it as the front end to his digital setup. as fate would have it, he had to move out of his studio space and it wound up back in my hands a month ago. now the fun begins...

it seems to be a fairly high quality mixer for pro sumer gear, with a lot of routing options, various +4 and -10 input and output options, direct outs, phantom power etc. given that i'm both new to reel to reel recording, and using an analog mixer i'm looking for advice on how to make this setup work. i'm trying to wrap my head around the various bus and send options, but it seems theres multiple ways to accomplish the same thing - i'm just not sure what the 'correct' way is. i've only so far used the mixer for its preamps and direct outs, it sounds great but i know i can do so much more with it.

ideally, i would like to use it for bouncing tracks down while adding fx like moog pedals, guitar pedals, reverb, etc and live mixing it onto the free track. it would be nice to control what effect goes to which track. also, i would like to do the above mentioned except bouncing the tracks to my computer while adding fx. i have a 4 input interface, so it would be ideal if i could bounce the 4 recorded tracks on the a2340 to the 4 separate inputs on the interface, using the mixer to add the fx. i'm not sure if this would be possible, or if i would just have to settle for a stereo mix to the interface. it seems most of the outputs of the mixer are +4 and the teac is -10, i did have to crank the line inputs on the teac to make up for the +4 when using the direct outs, but it still seemed to sound fine with not much noise. if i remember correctly, there are unbalanced -10 inputs into the mixer, so im guessing i should use those when bouncing. my interface is switchable between -10 and +4.

so given all that, i guess my question is how would you folks rig together this setup? i've read a fair amount on setting up an analog mixer and rtr, but am still at a kind of stand still on how to apply that to my current gear. any practical advice is welcome, as i'm a hands on learner and just need some tips to get me started. i'm sure it will all make sense the more i use it. here is a link to the manual for the mixer - http://www.studio250.fr/docs/divers enregistrement/atspecif.pdf

sorry for the incredibly long post, i look forward to diving into the world of tape with this forum. thanks.
 
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thanks for the link, looks like i got some more reading to do!

and unfortunately not related, just a huge fan of the late, great saxophone master :)
 
Welcome to the forum. I dug the shit out of the guitar clip. Very cool sounds!

I used to have the AT beast. 52 pounds! It was such an awesomely cool machine (the only cassette 4 track I knew of with phantom power), but unfortunately I was never able to get it working up to snuff and didn't have the money to send it to a shop for repair, so I sold it as is.

Anyway, best of luck in your tape adventures! :)
 
Welcome to the forum. I dug the shit out of the guitar clip. Very cool sounds!

I used to have the AT beast. 52 pounds! It was such an awesomely cool machine (the only cassette 4 track I knew of with phantom power), but unfortunately I was never able to get it working up to snuff and didn't have the money to send it to a shop for repair, so I sold it as is.

Anyway, best of luck in your tape adventures! :)

thanks! thats very kind of you. fwiw, i use a looper with variable feedback decay & pitch shifting to kind of manipulate the sounds while attempting to play guitar - similar to the old tape loop "time lag accumulation" projects by terry riley, brian eno, robert fripp etc. fun stuff! id eventually like to get more rtr's and try it the old school way though. there's 2 more clips recorded in a similar way on my channel (neptune in the first house & water signs)

thats too bad you couldnt get the AT up to snuff. its such a cool beast! i dont think the cassette transport in mine is working either, but i havent messed with it too much. all the pres and knobs ive tried thus far have worked excellent though, surprisingly quiet and no scratchiness. considering the state i found it in it must be built like a tank. ive got the day off today so im going to try to dive into it a bit more thoroughly and see what happens. i'm sure the only way you learn this kind of stuff is to get your hands dirty & make mistakes.

cheers
 
i'm sure the only way you learn this kind of stuff is to get your hands dirty & make mistakes.

cheers
Bingo, right about that.
While asking questions and getting help on forums is good, it's no substitute for hands on "being there"
The help you get steers and guides you. But the real knowledge comes from you figuring it out by diving in. :-)

Welcome to the nuthouse.
 
Bingo, right about that.
While asking questions and getting help on forums is good, it's no substitute for hands on "being there"
The help you get steers and guides you. But the real knowledge comes from you figuring it out by diving in. :-)

Welcome to the nuthouse.


ohhh ya, after yesterday - 10 hours of testing the gear i definitely feel like i entered the nuthouse. nothing caught fire, which is a good sign. definitely made a mental note to have alcohol on hand next time though...

i ended up trying almost every routing possibility i could think of. it seemed there was a few bum channels/outputs but i just tried again this morning and it turns out it was the darn brand new rca cable that was issue. argh!!! that said, there is some weird issues, like using sub 1 on channel 1 doesnt work, but using sub 2 on chan 1, and then sub 1 on chan 2 works. and some ground hum on certain routings, but i think i can work around that. also kind of a pain the mixer only lets you monitor sub 1,2 - to monitor 3,4 you have to output to a separate device.

the day started off nicely though, i bounced an old digital recording to the teac a2340 and it did something really special to the soundstage. not as special as recording direct to tape first, but still... i guess it remains to be seen how useful that is until i pass it through another round of conversion back to the computer. but monitoring right off the deck was magic!

something i found really threw me for a spin, though. there are 4 rca jacks labeled "tape out" - the manual clearly describes them in the cassette recorder section as "outputs from the 4 tracks of the tape" which seems to indicate they are outputs from the 4 tracks of the built in cassette recorder. however, i couldnt get any signal out of them - but i when i hooked my teac into them, i got signal. whats going on here? could these jacks be both ins and outs? i feel like im missing something obvious and not sure if these are any use to me, or what they would be used for.

other than those rca jacks, i can input signal from the deck through the channel line ins, direct ins, 2aux ins, and the 2x return ins. am i correct in thinking the cleanest route is the direct ins since it bypasses the trim control?

i guess my main question at this point is how you guys use fx sends when bouncing. especially time based fx, as i'll only be using reverb & delay for the most part. should the external pedals always be set 100% wet? i read you can return the fx signal on a separate channel instead of the fx return, and then i guess set that channel to the appropriate sub out. does this have any advantage over just using the fx return, and using the same sub out as above method - or is it effectively the same thing? i guess you might have more eq options, but the send/return channels have eq anyway. i think i'm looking for the 'cleanest' way to add fx without muddying the original signal too much. (arent we all? :))
 
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