headphones for mixing -- flatness needed -- any advice?

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speakandspell

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I recently bought a pair of ATH M40fs headphones for about $100 at my local music shop, in the hopes that these would be a welcome addition to my poor man's studio set up (well, not that poor, but the G4 set me back a bit). I don't have proper studio monitors, so these are to hold me over with accurate mixing until I buy those.

Now I'm thinking of returning them because they are nowhere near as flat as I'd hoped. It seems that I'm getting a lot of bass emphasis and they feel more like a way to make my DVD's and games sound awesome than the proper studio monitors which they are advertised as.

So that said, do y'all have any advice for what I should buy in the $100 - $200 range for headphones to get an accurate impression of my mixes (flatness is important for this accuracy)? I now know the difference between my music (I make techno) sounding "good" versus "accurate" and I want my mixes to sound accurate.

(also, I know I'll eventually need studio monitors and have been looking at Event PS 8's -- any opinions or other favorites out there?)

many thanks,
Dave
 
^^^ Yes, I know it's bad practice, but I don't have $600 for monitors right now.

Perhaps I will rephrase the question -- I want flat headphones that are actually for mixing and not idiot "make my DVD's and games sound dope" cans. I also don't want musician's headphone monitors as I will not be recording anything acoustic at all. I want headphones that will *as much as headphones possibly can* give an accurate representation of my mix.

Right now I have bass heavy headphones. I don't want that. I want them reasonably flat.

Thank you,
Dave
 
Nein, nein, nein! Ist verboten to mix with headphones.

Seriously, they may be fine for mixing DJ stuff and dance tracks but a manufacturers advertising can be mis-leading at best about using to mix tracks with.
 
sheesh...

yeah, yeah. s and s knows you don't mix with headphones, but can anybody give a recommendation for some mid-priced, fairly flat response headphones?
 
Fostex T-20 or T50's. I've been using T20's to monitor since '85.
 
Re: sheesh...

rahja said:
yeah, yeah. s and s knows you don't mix with headphones, but can anybody give a recommendation for some mid-priced, fairly flat response headphones?
Click to expand...

You are not quite grasping what they are telling you. Flat response headphones in comparison to monitors don't really exist. Headphones will ALWAYS be bass heavy in comparison.

You can get monitors for around $300 used easily. If you have to get headphones then just get some decent ones (do a search here) until you can afford the monitors.
 
sheesh 2...

TexRoadkill said:
You are not quite grasping what they are telling you. Flat response headphones in comparison to monitors don't really exist. Headphones will ALWAYS be bass heavy in comparison.
Click to expand...

I grasp completely.

If you have to get headphones then just get some decent ones (do a search here) until you can afford the monitors.
Click to expand...

this is what he's asking.... can you make some recommendations?
 
Do you have any type of stereo system you can hook up to your computer? It wouldn't be flat of course, but you can maybe compare the sound from that to the sound of your headphones and adjust accordingly. Also try rounding up as many different listening devices together as you can (Boombox, portable CD player, home stereo system, cheapo computer speakers, etc.) and listen to your mix through all of these and adjust to where the mix sounds good on all of them. This will take a lot of CDRs and a lot of time, but with my small bit of mixing knowledge I think this would be more beneficial to newbies like me than using a single pair of flat studio monitors. Who's gonna be listening to your music on studio monitors anyway?
 
Geez people, help the guy out.
There is a very nice headphone that happens to work fairly well for mixing and that are the Sennheiser HD-580's and the HD 600's. The 580's are about $200, and if you look them up you will find that they are what you want and are seldom, if ever, dissed. Excellent cans, and you will hear stuff you never heard before. I wrote about mine about a month ago in this forum, look around.
www.headphone.com has them for $200 even I think.
 
I just got a pair of Sennheiser 280s, and I'm really enjoyin' 'em. They're a totally different design from the 580s. More of a Sony 7506 type design. They are loud and have excellent noise rejection characteristics. About $100 in a store near you.

You're never going to find a pair of 'phones that are completely flat. Or monitors for that matter. Probably what you ought to do is play back your mixes on a lot of different systems and try to get to know whatever you decide to use. If you stick with those AT 'phones, know that they are bass-heavy. If you try monitoring with bookshelf speakers, they will have their own characteristics that you will have to try and compensate for.
 
While we're on the subject of mixing with headphones....

Can anyone suggest a good brand of scissors to cut my entire lawn with?
 
heh heh... thanks rahja and tubedude for rallying on my behalf (yes, I did just have a simple question -- I do understand some basics of home recording, I'm simply an old 4 track indie/punk rocker who has now moved on to hard techno and have been duct taping my studio together at the seams for some time now and I'm slowly upgrading -- re: the patience that has been shown, please know that I really appreciate it and I think this site is an excellent resource for learning -- cheers!)

I think I'll buy Event PS 8's in a month or two 'cos I can't stand not having a proper image of what my mix sounds like. I'll post separately to request monitor recommendations soon.

I went to my music shop and returned the ATH M40fs headphones and swapped them for the same priced Sennheiser HD 280 PRO pair before seeing a word here. I already find these to be 10 times more accurate. I do already have my stereo speakers connected to the same set-up and usually I burn CD-R's to check on my discman, boombox, car stereo, etc. But odd that Lame Thrower should mention it, yeah -- I just got these tonight and they seem nice. Time will tell. I had hoped to select amongst a wide range of Sennheiser products (the brand came highly recommended from a chat room pal earlier, who also sounded like a techno punk), but alas, the HD 280 PRO's were all they had. So far so good. If anyone has any Sennheiser experience and prefers something other than the HD 280 PRO's, please let me know.

thanks again for all your help, I'll be posting shortly for monitor advice (home-recording.com bbs gang to be thanked on a future 12" release hopefully!!) :)

peace,
Dave
 
Well, you should never mow your lawn with scissors, but if you have to, you should use these:

8360L.gif


8360 Swivel Thumbs Total freedom! This 360 degree swivel thumb scissor allows the fingers and thumb to be in a natural position, making the scissor feel like an extension of your hand for easy cutting. A must for people experiencing carpal tunnel and thumb pains. Convex edges, triple hand honed and hollow ground.
Available in 5", 5.5", 6", 6.5", 8", 10", 5" Lefty $270.00 - $446.00

I have a pair and they're awesome!
 
The 280's make nice tracking room phones cause they are very sealed and very loud. But, they are exaggerated like most and not real good mixing phones (although I'll bet they sound way better than the other ones you had). You can honestly put out some decent mixes with the 580's and 600's... not perfect, but better. And, the 580's are flatter and WAY smoother on the top end than any monitor you are gonna find for the price, no matter what anyone here says. Get the 580's if you can, and also get some decent monitors when you can. Those Events will fatigue you most likely, check out the Tannoy Reveals. They have a cool ass stereo image when placed properly. I havent had time to really mess with anything other than my 580's though. I've had maybe an hour on everything I've mentioned, besides the phones, which I use for 2 hours a day, everyday.
 
I bought Beyer DT770's years ago... I love 'em. Compared them with the other can's in the shop, and these were the most accurate in there. The bass was not as exagerated, and alot more defined as in any of the other headphones they had. Sennheiser models were more closed, but not that clear in the lows...

I was simply amazed. The shop owner too. Bought them even if they were above my budget... Be aware that good headphones will cost alot too...

I think they are a usefull addition when mixing btw. But I wouldn't want to mix on them solely. God no...
 
You might also want to check out the AKG K240 Monitor headphones. Not ideal for mixing, but they do sound pretty flat, as headphones go, and they will give you another perspective.

Chris
 
Yeah,

as nearly everybody is saying here - mixing with CANS will give you a BASS heavy response - and it's not recommended.....

BUT, IF you wanna/have to use phones I would go with the AKG 270s model (cost around $200 USD)......I use em quite a bit, and they are about as FLAT as cans are gonna get......plus comfortable too for extended periods of use.....

However, when it comes to doing the final mix, etc.......your'll need decent monitors.....coz there WILL definitely be some EQ adjusting to do :-)

KEV
 
Sorry, wasn't trying to be a dick or a mix nazi. It's just that good headphones cost as much as low end monitors so you might as well get the monitors.

I just use whatever headphones are handy since I dont rely on them for anything other than isolated listening for tracking or editing. I don't rely on headphones for ANYTHING related to tone or mixing.

The only monitors I really know are NS10M's and Genelecs so those would be my recomendations.
 
Not quite there TEX amigo :-)

One can get a decent pair of cans for $200 USD.....but a decent set of "lower price" monitors will still cost around $475+ USD (ie: something like the Yorkies :-) once ya figure in the taxes, etc......

In the past I've HAD to use cans quite a bit whilst working, simply coz I couldn't disturb the sleeping natives :-).....and it's OK to use em for getting the tracks down,...so cans do definitely have their place.....but I agree, for final mixes, etc - ya gotta have monitors - for sure....

KEV
 
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