Hate the Game

[VomitHatSteve]

Well, I'm back to recording on my own without the help of Tanacea and his sweet studio. (I've got a lot more time for this hobby than he does what with the lack of wife and kids. (Sucker!))

So here's another song I did.

Hate the Game

It's not hip-hoppy in any way at all. That's a completely misleading title.

Is the lead guitar too loud? Are the vocals too quiet?
How are the drums?

 

[Chili]

Sorry Steve, but I hear absolutely no low end whatsoever. This might be one of those things where you need to consider the room you're mixing in. If it isn't treated, you should put some thought into doing so.

The snare is right out in front and not balanced with the rest of the drum kit. The keyboard is also prominent and not blending. Vocals are buried a bit.

I like the song, though, I see where you're going with it. I think the performance is there too.

cheers,

 

[dodgeaspen]

Chili's right about the missing low end. This songs like I would hear a song on AM. Kind of cool.

 

[VomitHatSteve]

I see what you guys mean about not enough low-end. I probably mixed the rhythm guitars and the bassier of my bass tracks too low to avoid mud. I'll touch it up tomorrow evening.

I actually rent an aparment, so properly treating a room isn't feasible. Any recommendations on decent kludge treatments? (My bed and piles of laundry absorb sound, so that's good, right?)

Chili, they keyboard's too loud? I thought the keyboard was actually pretty quiet.

 

[Chili]

I see what you guys mean about not enough low-end. I probably mixed the rhythm guitars and the bassier of my bass tracks too low to avoid mud. I'll touch it up tomorrow evening.

I actually rent an aparment, so properly treating a room isn't feasible. Any recommendations on decent kludge treatments? (My bed and piles of laundry absorb sound, so that's good, right?)

Chili, they keyboard's too loud? I thought the keyboard was actually pretty quiet.

You can use OC703, cover them in fabric and then just use push pins to hold them on the wall. When you eventually vacate the apartment, pull them down, spackle the pin holes, you're done. Take the panels to your next dwelling. OC703 is a very cost effective solution for room treatment.

Until you get to that point, lots of comparison listening with commercial releases similar to your style.

i thought there were some places where the keyboard stood out.
Listening again, I still hear it on top of everything else, but not always.

 

[mattdee1]

+1 for vocals too quiet, snare too loud, and not enough low end.

 

[auburncatfish]

I think this could sound great with a remix. I'd start with

increase volume way up on vox.
increase volume titch on back guitars
maybe pan some of those guitars more
more low end eq wise
bring up some of those back up vox

Just my unprofessional thoughts....

 

[heatmiser]

A truly original effort just as I've come to expect. I think this is a cool tune and well arranged and everything, but the mix seems pretty odd to me.

I just read through the comments and pretty much agree with what has been said.

- vocals could be much louder
- snare is cool and should be featured heavily, but still too loud as is
- too mid-rangey and lacking in low end generally
- keyboard is too loud at least in first half of song

I like the tune...it's very fun and original. Just adjust some levels and give the whole thing some kind of scooped treatment and I bet it would sound way better.

 

[VomitHatSteve]

OK. New version is up.

Old version for comparison.

Changes:
Lead vocals are louder.
50 Hz High-pass filters removed from rhythm guitars.
Lead guitar (which I think you guys have been calling a keyboard?) turned way down. (The "keyboard" is actually the organ-y sounding thing slightly on the left side.)
Bass guitar turned up and given a boost around the 50Hz range.
Normal snare drum turned down.
Normal drum machine turned down. Distorted drum machine turned up (unfortunately, I don't really have fine-grain control over the individual hits there since it's randomized.)

Thanks for all your input!

 

[Greg_L]

This is not good man. The mix is a mess. I don't even know where to begin. It's just a mash of noise. Sorry.

You need to decide on what kind of mix you want to make. Do you want shiny and polished? Or do you want dirty and lo-fi? Something in the middle? First and foremost, you have to have a good mixing environment and good monitors - or at least monitors that you are intimately experienced with. After that, I think a decent mix starts with the drums. If you have good, usable drum tracks, the rest almost takes care of itself. Even in old DIY punk recordings, you could hear the drums pretty clearly. Start with that. Make sure you can hear everything with the drums, and don't let anything else in the mix interfere with the kick and snare. Then, make sure you're tracking a good bass sound. Don't try to fix everything in the mix. It gets beaten to death in here, but you really do have to start with good source sounds. Good drums + good bass = great start. With a clear kick/bass relationship, the rest of the mix is simple. Drop in guitars and keys and vocals and whatever else you want to add. Just don't fuck up the kick/bass relationship.

That last mix you did with the Tanacea person was good. Consider the differences between that mix and this mix, and go from there.

 

[FoulPhil]

I would spend A LOT of time on the vocals man. Look up vocal comping and Auto tune LOL. It's just my opinion, but vocals are the most impart of the any song with singing. It doesn't sound too bad, but it should sound amazing and it's far from it.

And then experiment with the sounds of everything. Find a song you would like it to sound like. Then try to get each track sound as close as possible.

Over the years I've re-recorded some of the songs I wrote at least 3 times already. They keep sounding better and better. It's just one of those things that takes time to build on the skills.

 

[VomitHatSteve]

I'm actually pretty staunchly against auto-tune in my songs. I'd much rather re-track it until I can sing it right! (Though I do comp as needed.)

Drums are still something I'm having trouble getting just right. I largely use a randomized drum machine that I programmed as a Reaper plugin. It's a very cool instrument in a John Cage-ish kind of way, but it doesn't lay down a solid beat the way real drums do, and I'm having trouble ironing out the real drums side of things.

Of all of the voices in this mix, the only ones that I wasn't too sure about were the lead guitar and analog drums. I like the bass, rhythm guitar, synth, and vocal tones. It's just a matter of getting them to sit well together.

 

[FoulPhil]

I love auto tune man. It comes in real handy. For example there are parts where the singing is flawless and maybe one tiny note is off. Instead of having to record over it and try to get it to fit just right, you can use the graphic view of auto tune and correct only the parts that need to be corrected.

I'm still not convinced it can save a completely horrible singer, but it can save you a lot of work if you use it right.

The T-Pain shit is gay, no doubt.

 

[VomitHatSteve]

I actually feel like the T-pain effect has its place, but it is currently far too overused. But pitch correction just feels inauthentic to me.

I'm doing half a dozen takes of the vocal line anyway, so if I mess up one note, I can comp it in from another take. (If I miss the same note in every take, then I don't actually know the song and should go back and practice!)

 

[FoulPhil]

I guess I'm just lazy. I do the multiple take and comping as well, but sometimes things just don't work out right. When I'm doing my own music I don't even record the entire song. I just record the different parts of the songs and piece them together. I've learned enough tricks over the years to cut my time and frustration in half by cheating a little.

I like to go over tracks with auto tunes graphic mode with most vocal comps anyway just because it really smooths things out.