Harvey, Bruce, Anyone..... Can you check these out?

[Markd102]

Hey guys.
I was wondering if one of you resected pros could check out Mann Electronics and give me an honest, "from the hip" opinion on these mics. Have any of you heard of them or used them?

I have the MT31 that they talk about as their "early" mic which enjoy using, but as it's the only LD condenser I own, it's hard to say if it really is any good.

The web site is brand new. A matter of weeks old. They've had a coming soon page up for about 6 months that I've seen.

I've had my mic for about 2 years now.

Thanks guys

Mark

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Sorry Mark... I've never heard of them, much less used one, so I can't comment!

I looked at their posted specs though, and there's another company that doesn't post tolerances!

Bruce

 

[ausrock]

Mark,
I have just seen there site and will say this.........take much of what is written there with a grain of salt.
The testimonials there both come from my home turf and knowing who supplied the mics gives me an idea who is behind them.
I said to you sometime back that I thought they were just an "off the shelf" Chinese mic and I am now even more convinced. At that time I didn't think the Aust. source was a close to home.

 

[Markd102]

Thanks guys

Yes, I did ask about these mics a while back. I was hoping that now their website is up it might give a bit more information.

As I mentioned in Bruce's C1 thread yesterday, I'm now looking for a C1 to use as my main vocal mic. So at last I will have something that I know works well to do A/B comprisons with.
When I get the C1 (which is still a couple of months of yet) I'll post some comparison files for your interest.

I'll keep using the MT31 on accoustic instruments where I believe I'm getting great results. I've recorded accoustic guitar, soprano sax, alto sax, flugel horn, trumpet, violin, flute, tin whistle and various percussion intruments with it and they sound very natural.

Thanks again, and if anyone ever actually comes across one of these babies in the future, I'd love to hear all comments....GOOD OR BAD

Mark

 

[ausrock]

Mark,
I can be a cynical bastard at times, but I am pretty sure that (and I'm going to do some investigating) Mann and a couple of other obscure brands are straight of the shelf of an asian factory. Anyone, if they are prepared to buy a quantity, can have any name they chose on these mics..........would you like to buy an "AUSROCK" large diaphragm condenser..... or maybe even scarier a BLUE DUCK STUDIOS special edition mic .

To my knowledge (and I'm happy to be corrected), at the moment only a couple of companies are either being TOTALLY open about the source of their mics,.....are having mics made to their own specs., by the asian manufacturers.......or are doing some hands-on work themselves before the mics go out to distributors, etc.

These companies are;
RODE.......Studio Projects........and possibly Marshall Electronics (MXL). If anyone cares to pass accurate comments feel free.

 

[Henrik]

From what I understand, the ADK line is also not just off-the-shelf-mics, but are designed in the US and manufactured in Chinal.

 

[ausrock]

Henrik,
I refrained from mentioning ADK, as the only information I have is from their own marketing hype. Like the people behind Mann, they are using a Germanic sounding name, which personally I interpret as being an attempt to lure unsuspecting customers into believing they are getting a mic with a credible pedigree.

 

[Henrik]

I definitely agree that the German sounding name is silly. But from what I understand, the mic designer Larry Villella is just as serious about his mics as Alan Hyatt. I Sweden there is a pro audio store called Golden Age Music, which is pretty much the Swedish equivalent of Mercenary. They sell the ADK line along with Daking, Earthworks and Royer. You get the picture. I sincerely trust that if they have it, it can't be bad.

The only ADK I tried myself was their KM184 copy, A-51sc. I found it too dark sounding for drum overheads, which was what I needed when I tried it. But I will buy it some day, it's bound to be great on things like cello, double bass, toms and maybe even some vocalists. I've never had the opportunity to try a real KM184, so I can't tell if the ADK sounded like one.

People I trust have tried the A-51s, their U67 copy, and they just love it. Also, I recall Sonusman have had some good things to say about their (more expensive) tube mics.

 

[alanhyatt]

Hey guys.
I was wondering if one of you resected pros could check out Mann Electronics and give me an honest, "from the hip" opinion on these mics.

Thanks guys

Mark

Mark,

This Mann mic is definately an off the shelf Fielo or Soundking mic. The switches are the exact same. In addition, it is using the same "el cheapo" transformer and Neumann body shape most do. These two companies make the majority of models for Marshall, ADK, SE Electronics, Nady, and the list goes on. I am not saying they sound bad, but look at the mic man...how many damn brand names have you seen on that thing!!!

Go to http://www.a-dk.com/home.htm and see the same mic
Go to http://www.mxlmics.com/condens.html and see several
Go to http://www.nadywireless.com/scmmics.html and see more

I could do this all day long, but I think many of you get it by now

Go to
http://www.studioprojectsusa.com/studioprojectsline.html


and see something different

Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group

 

[ausrock]

To add to my earlier posts;

Mark, I think the mics are imported by Group Technologies......in either Melb or Sydney, and distributed thru mainly PA oriented audio companies. I will be checking this out further.

Alan, re those links you posted, you are welcome to do it all day long in an email to me.......
......as that is some of the info I was after.

 

[Henrik]

Re: Re: Harvey, Bruce, Anyone..... Can you check these out?

I am not saying they sound bad, but look at the mic man...how many damn brand names have you seen on that thing!!!

Seriously Alan, are you suggesting that since many mics use a similar design on the outside, they are the same on the inside?
All of these mics have copied the design of Neumann U87. Just think of all the Fender Stratocaster or Gibson Les Paul lookalike guitars there are in this world. Does this mean they all are the same guitar with different names on them? Hardly.

I'm sure your mics are designed by you for your company only, and that you can't get the Studio Projects mics with another name on it. But I'm also sure they're not the only ones that work that way.

Anyway, something else here. I have a suggestion for you:
Many pro engineers swear by ribbon mics. Maybe you could be the first to design an inexpensive ribbon (the Studio Projects R1, hehe)?

When it's another great success for your business you can send me a free mic or two for giving you the idea.

 

[ausrock]

QUOTE;......"Seriously Alan, are you suggesting that since many mics use a similar design on the outside, they are the same on the inside".

Henrick, I think that's exactly what Alan was suggesting and from what I have been able to find out from some audio suppliers, rightly so.
To quote from a guy (who owns a "pro audio" business) I was talking to today......."the same mic is out there with a hundred different badges on it".........he was of course refering to the over-abundance of off the shelf mics being marketed with excessive hype, etc., by numerous individuals.

 

[Markd102]

Alan

That may be true of the M21, but I have the MT31 which is a dual diaphram multi pattern tube condenser. I have A/B'd it with a friend's S&M MC01 which is definately another mic that goes with your list, and it definately sounds better than that.

I'm not saying I got something great here, but it's definately better than that.

But as I've said, I'm currently saving up for a C1 Need A$600 here.

Ausrock, Yes it did come from "Group" in Melbourne about 2 years ago. they were retailing for A$1500 back then. I did about $800 worth of live work for a local PA company and got it as payment.

Mark

 

[Henrik]

QUOTE;......"Seriously Alan, are you suggesting that since many mics use a similar design on the outside, they are the same on the inside".

Henrick, I think that's exactly what Alan was suggesting and from what I have been able to find out from some audio suppliers, rightly so.
To quote from a guy (who owns a "pro audio" business) I was talking to today......."the same mic is out there with a hundred different badges on it".........he was of course refering to the over-abundance of off the shelf mics being marketed with excessive hype, etc., by numerous individuals.

Ausrock,
No doubt about it - the same mic is out there with a hundred different names on it. It's very interesting to compare reviews of the Marshall 2001, the Joemeek JM47, the Behringer B2 and the Rode NT-1. The reviews all say pretty much the same, and probably for a reason. I'm not disputing that.

But I'm equally convinced the mic factories in China ALSO make mics from custom designs. The Studio Projects line is one example. Some of the Marshall mics seem to be another. And I'm pretty convinced that the ADK line is another one - at least their main line.

The ADK Generis line (even more budget) may be something else.

But of course, like you I'm just making my own assumptions based on bits of information from here and there (including owners of "pro audio" businesses). Of course I could be totally wrong. Maybe the ADK marketing department are sitting and laughing their asses off reading my posts. I suppose the only way to REALLY find out is to go there and watch the mics being manufactured. Or just listen to the damn things!

So all I'm really claiming here is that it's hard to tell the difference between the good ones and the bad ones just by looking at the shells. The U87 design is a popular one (just like the Fender Strat), and it is used by many mic manufacturers - in and out of China.

Peace
/Henrik

 

[ausrock]

Henrik,
What you say is correct.

If you think about it, all someone like Marshall or ADK, etc., has to do, is request that one component be changed and they can then claim that the mic is custom made..........like changing the value of a resistor.

If all I have read is accurate, then the quality control in some of these factories is somewhat lacking, consequently, performance consistency goes right out the window.

On a side note, Shure and Sennhieser, jointly with the appropriate Chinese Govt. department have just had over 50,000 counterfeit mics confiscated from 3 or 4 factories in China.

 

[alanhyatt]

I will not say what companies did this, but a couple of guys pulled two guys out of the Fielo company and set up a new shop with them so they could get the mics even cheaper...as if they were not cheap enough to begin with!

It would be improper for me to name the new company or those that colaborated to do this. Not all mics are off the shelf...some do make a resister change here and there, but they don't change anything else, so for all intensive pruposes, they are still off the shelf in my book...

My line is the only radically different Chinese mic line out there, from the inside out, and many are now coping the Studio Projects insides as well...but hey, that's life, get over it. As long as I can be competitive, better sounding, and look different, then that will be my edge. In addition, the Studio Projects name brand image is getting very strong. So all we have to do is keep on doing what we do.

Henrik,

No ribbon mic, but the small diaphragms are almost done. We are in testing right now, so this year you will see matched pairs of SD mics from us. We are also looking at stereo mics now as well. Oh yeah, they all are the same guitar with different names on them? Just look at Samick who make almost 75% of them.



Alan Hyatt

 

[chessparov]

Henrick, I already beat you to the "ribbon" idea for Studio Projects so I've
got first "dibs" on any free mikes! (just kidding)

My assumption was that any potential "A" series would be a small diaphram condenser.
The possibility of any stereo mikes is very cool indeed.

 

[ausrock]

Alan,
The method used in the SP mics for mounting the diaphragm assemblies, (I'm referring to the heavier, solid post),....... is that unique to SP mics,....... is it an old design........and to your knowledge, has it been copied by others recently?

 

[alanhyatt]

Ausrock,

You must remember the danger involved with giving the Chinese anything is that they will use a design you give on their products or other brands if they think it is a better way to do it. This is why I say, that's life...get over it. If you understand who you deal with, then you accept the backlash. Do you're best, build your brand name, and hopefully the customer base will stick with you. As for the mounting, you can injection mould it like many do, or post bind it. We chose the method we are using, made it more rugged, but did not invent it.

I expect to see circuits from my VTB-1 and Tube Drive on other product soon as well. These are not patentable circuits, so if you have something unique and different, you take the chance of exposure. We are working on a new 8 Channel mic pre with summing amplifiers using real cool designs, but I expect it will get used as well somewhere else.

Alan Hyatt