Hafler TA1600 vs TA1100 vs older amps

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Cliff K

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Howdy folks,
I'm looking for some ideas on power amps for my little home studio. I'm now ready to start putting a monitor system together. I found an old Phase Linear 400 power amp, and a Crown DC-300A series II, for sale for around $250...I figured that either would be great with plenty of power. Then I noticed that Hafler sells these TA amps for less than I can get one these old amps for, and I know that Hafler makes good stuff. Muscians Friend is selling the TA1600 right now for $180 :) . So, I'm wondering about a couple of things: other than the power rating, is there a difference between the TA1100 and the TA1600? (why would anyone get the TA1100 when the TA1600 is so affordable?). Also, assuming that these small Haflers will give me enough power, is there any argument to opt for the older Phase Linear or Crown? And lastly, what do people think of the KRK K-Rok Passive Studio monitors? Musicians Friend is selling these for $200 a pair right now, seems pretty cheap. Any other suggestions or options worth considering?
Thanks!
Cliff
 
The TA1600 is a little underpowered, but a very good value. You're right, there is no reason to look at the TA1100 with the 1600 being so affordable.

Very nice amp.

With an older amp you're taking your chances...crackles, pops, breakdowns...they're all more likely. That's not to say that it's bad to shop for older amps, just know what you're shopping for.

Also, when you get into the high power amps, they're often fan cooled and the noise factor may come into play if you're in a small area. The TA1600 is convection cooled (i believe that's the term).

Slackmaster 2000
 
I have the TA1600 powering the Rokits, and it is a pretty nice setup for starting out. Before buying, I compared the Rokits to the Event 20/20s and felt they held their own. I felt the clarity was at least as good, and they produced the bass quite well, but not as well as the 8" woofs in the 20/20s. The stereo seperation on the 20/20s was better also. But overall I was impressed by the Rokits performance, and the 20/20s were just too big for my space. I bought mine 3-years ago. But so many new monitors have hit the market since then I don't know what I'd buy if I were shopping today. $200, though, is a good price.
 
P.S. I use the TA1600 to power Event 20/20's. While it's kind of underpowered, I believe I can get around 115db before it breaks up, which is plenty loud (don't quote that number, I just know I get enough volume to hurt the ears...I measured it once but I'm bad at remembering numbers).

Slackmaster 2000
 
Must be your listening space or your maybe you still have a bunch of Plaster of Paris stuffed in your ears, because the TA1600-20/20 combo gets plenty loud.

If I turn the amp controls to the mfgs optimal levels, I have to jack down the monitor volume in the Delta Control Panel to a ridiculously low level.

Slack- what are the symptoms of underpowered amp that you are hearing?
 
Yeah, I experience the same as drstawl with my TA1600 and 20/20 combo...
 
I just bought a TA-1600 to go with my NS-10M's. It suits them just perfectly. There are no audible problems with it that I can find, and I've had it up pretty damn loud. Since my usual monitoring level is 85 dB, I expect to have no problems whatsoever. The cooling fins barely even get warm after several hours at that level.

There is supposedly some difference in the technology between the two amps. The TA-1600 uses Trans-NOVA (whatever that means) "technology" and the TA-1100 uses Trans-ANA (whatever that means) technology. There's also a difference in the way that the two amps handle overloads and dead short conditions, but I can't recall it offhand.

If you get the TA-1600, remember that you'll actually need 4 rack spaces for it. It requires an empty space above and below for proper cooling. So remember to budget for a couple blank panels and a couple extra rack spaces. (The 1100 might also need this, but I can't remember.) For me, this is well worth it, since my control room and tracking room are one and the same. To run a power amp in just 2 rack spaces, it needs to have forced air cooling, which means fans, which means a raised noise floor.

For the $160 I paid for it, it seems like a killer deal. Also for $180. If I had more to spend ($250 or so) I'd probably have looked more closely at the low-end Crowns and Crests, though.
 
Hafler makes very very good products.I've owned seven Hafler amps(Ihad a P.A.)..While they were the older ones...DH220,DH500 that era, they always operated perfectly and put out the wattage they said they would.I have no experience with the newer stuff but can only assume they've continued their excellence.I do,however, have a LOT of experience with Crown DC-300's and Phase Linear400's.These are two of the finest amps ever made.Sonically you have to be looking at Bryston andCrest and other high-end audiofile amps to compete with the sonic range of these two.The Phase is a sweet amp and the Crown is simply a hot-rod...I've owned three each of them both(other P.A.) and can attest to their sonic quality.I'll never use a Phase again live as they tend to go DC when pushed and sometimes can get this signal past the fuses to eat speakers like candy.The Crown is simply voltage in=voltage out throughout the frequency range.I had a friend benchtest one of my 300's once and the power curve continued to be flat from around 20hz up to 30,000...with a 4 ohm load at 1v...thats around 300 wats rms with one of these...should be enough....
 
Since when is 115db not loud you goofballs? (that's measured ~3 feet from each monitor in the center of the field)

I haven't had any underpowered issues, but they are 85W and event recommends 100W minimum, 200W optimal or something like that.

I will say this, sometimes if I crank it up with the intent of leaving the room to listen, I can't them loud enough. But for mixing, the 20/20 + TA1600 combo is great...in fact I bought the TA1600 on RE's recommendation. Fantastic value!


You shouldn't be controlling output volume with your soundcard mixer. It is a pre-converter digital manipulation. I use the preamp section of my old NAD amp to control volume. Other than that, a mixer or line preamp would do.

I have my inputs on the TA1600 set to about 4. That gives me about 2/3-3/4 volume control movement before clipping on most sources. I set it up per the procedure in the manual.

Slackmaster 2000
 
This is great info, folks! It really helps me sort through all of this. I think I'll go down to my local Guitar Center today and give the Hafler and some monitors a listen. I'm still intrigued with the Phase Linear and the Crown, as I also need to put togther a stereo guitar synth/keyboard rig for live use, and my band really needs to get our own PA togther, and it might be good to go for one these older but more powerful amps to have and be able to shift it over to live use later.

cavedog101 said:
I do,however, have a LOT of experience with Crown DC-300's and Phase Linear400's.These are two of the finest amps ever made.Sonically you have to be looking at Bryston andCrest and other high-end audiofile amps to compete with the sonic range of these two.The Phase is a sweet amp and the Crown is simply a hot-rod...I've owned three each of them both(other P.A.) and can attest to their sonic quality.I'll never use a Phase again live as they tend to go DC when pushed and sometimes can get this signal past the fuses to eat speakers like candy.The Crown is simply voltage in=voltage out throughout the frequency range.I had a friend benchtest one of my 300's once and the power curve continued to be flat from around 20hz up to 30,000...with a 4 ohm load at 1v...thats around 300 wats rms with one of these...should be enough....
Click to expand...

Does anyone know what the difference is between Crown DC-300 and the Crown DC-300A series II? What makes for series II?

Thanks,
Cliff
 
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