darrin_h2000
Banned
Yeah...but are they plugged in or just posing...Miley is lypsyncing...Lady Gaga and Britney (There are people who have recorded what is really coming from her mic feeds) are all doing what we ran Milli Vannilli and Ashley Simpson out of town on a rail for too...Mariah Im not sure about...but as long as there is a chance of a nipple slip Ill watch.
Ill bet as soon as another bigger industry like the military goes away from using tubes...they will stop making them...supplying guitar amp companies isnt going to keep factories open...and when they are all gone those amps will become fossils...I hope not...I use a tube amp as a slave for my modeler.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
actually audio ( both pro and audiophile) is about all tubes are really used for anymore . The military doesn't use that shit anymore ....... .Soviets might still. As long as there's even a small market they'll make 'em.Yeah...but are they plugged in or just posing...Miley is lypsyncing...Lady Gaga and Britney (There are people who have recorded what is really coming from her mic feeds) are all doing what we ran Milli Vannilli and Ashley Simpson out of town on a rail for too...Mariah Im not sure about...but as long as there is a chance of a nipple slip Ill watch.
Ill bet as soon as another bigger industry like the military goes away from using tubes...they will stop making them...supplying guitar amp companies isnt going to keep factories open...and when they are all gone those amps will become fossils...I hope not...I use a tube amp as a slave for my modeler.
Just like vinyl ...... vinyl is the ONLY recorded media that's shown sales increases the last 3 or 4 years.
Yeah, it's only a 65 million dollar industry ..... but that 65 million is more than enough to have many companies making products.
Tube amps will be the same. It'll be a big enough market for a company or two.
And usually when I hear a guitarist talk about how a modeler responds as well as a good tube amp, it's usually because he hasn't yet progressed to a point in his playing where he can tell the difference. And if you don't find there to be a difference then it would be silly to haul an amp around ..... go the lazy way and have more time for drinking.
But I don't haul a guitar amp around just for the shit of it....... especially when my Rocktron does a pretty good job.
But it doesn't respond to tiny variations in my picking like a good tube amp will.
I'm not anti-modelers and I've heard people get decent results out of them and, for that matter, I can get decent results out of them.
But I'm after that last little bit of response that allows me to be just that much more subtle in my playing and a model of the real thing still is a model of the real thing.
mshilarious
Banned
We are all playing modelers of the sound that is inside our head . . . in that way, we are all playing synthesizers. Which raises the question of why we are all thinking of the same sound?
darrin_h2000
Banned
I think MS blew a rectifier tube just now.
tigerflystudio
New member
Some interesting posts so far. Being the thread opener, I've a few more thoughts to add today.
Firstly, a quick reminder, that I am thinking of ditching my tube amp for my POD. And that I will be running into a very good PA system (Mackie desk & SRM450's). We do our own sound and we use on-stage monitors.
So, the main thing about valve amps is that they sound good, but are otherwise just huge heavy boxes that, from time to time, do go wrong and require fixing, or servicing once a year at least to maintain optimum performance. Plus, although they produce a very good sound / tone, they're a one-trick-pony - i.e. that's all they can do. They can not replicate the kind of sound-shifts that a WELL PROGRAMMED (and that's the key!) POD can create for you at the push of a footswitch.
Who wants to watch a guitarist fiddle about with his amp for 10 minutes after every song whilst he attempts (and fails) to dial in the sound for the next song? With a POD, you do all your homework (sound-tests etc.) in the rehearsal studio, and live, you just tap your footswitch and hey-presto! Instant cool sound. So it's infinitely better to use a POD when it comes to versatility.
That brings me on to the subject of actual tone. A LOT of guys who experience bad tone from POD's simply don't know how to set them up. I realise that's a dangerous statement, which might incite a lot of 'reactive' posts, but I know there are also a ton of guys who just plain and simple prefer their tube amps. And that's fair enough. But in the vast majority of circumstances, a POD actually sounds better than the amp / cab it's modelling.
I have a bunch of tube amps, some vintage, some modern, and I know how to use them. Well. And in a variety of situations, including recording. I'm no mixing / mastering guru (not by a long shot) but I know how to create good guitar tones, and how to capture them for recording, too.
Now, I'm going to say something which is going to upset a few people (the 'ego-rig' chaps mainly) but I'll say it anyways (because I know from first-hand experience that it's true) - and that is: unless your valve amp is in pristine working condition, set-up perfectly, located in an acoustically-treated studio recording room, and mic'd up using a selection of the best microphones money can buy, then your amp will not sound better than a PROPERLY CONNECTED / SET-UP POD, which has been edited by someone who knows what sound / tone they're looking for and how to get it.
Programming / editing sounds is not actually as easy a task as it seems. A stack of 'users' expect to just dial in or make modifications to pre-sets and expect to get 'that' tone. In reality, getting the best tones is a skill and requires an experienced critical ear, a lot of experimentation, tweaking, and referencing on different sources and at different volumes. 'Bedroom axe-hero's' usually fall into one of two categories, a) don't know / care what 'good' tone is so just stick with pre-sets (which simply demo the extremities of the units possibilities / features), or b) get frustrated because they don't know HOW to get good tone out of that small, red kidney shaped 'toy'. Then they totally dismiss it out of hand and revert to the default "modellers are too fake / digital; valve-amps-are-best" argument.
But, back to the point… the opening post… I won’t be in a situation where I can test the POD direct to PA (not for a few weeks yet), but I am intending to give my POD a fair crack of the whip. If it sucks, then I'll report back openly and honestly as to WHY it sucks. The best argument I've heard yet is that there will be a 'hole' in the on-stage sound - i.e. I won’t be able to hear (monitor) my wonderful USA Fender strat Relic properly whilst playing live. I do have the option of feeding the guitar signal to one of the on-stage wedge monitors, but that might turn out to be a less-than-ideal work-around. We'll see. As has been mentioned, using a POD direct is about versatility, seamless switching between very different tonal sounds, without having to spend time dialling them in on stage. If the sound quality is poor, when pitched against my (high end) valve amp rig, then I'll let you know. If it's negligible, then I I'll be honest about it and tell ya'll. If it’s night-and-day, again, I'll say so. Plus it'll be great to not have to haul a big heavy rig around unnecessarily.
For now, if anyone has any experience of using such a set-up, or have tried it and decided against it, or any other musings, please share your thoughts?
Firstly, a quick reminder, that I am thinking of ditching my tube amp for my POD. And that I will be running into a very good PA system (Mackie desk & SRM450's). We do our own sound and we use on-stage monitors.
So, the main thing about valve amps is that they sound good, but are otherwise just huge heavy boxes that, from time to time, do go wrong and require fixing, or servicing once a year at least to maintain optimum performance. Plus, although they produce a very good sound / tone, they're a one-trick-pony - i.e. that's all they can do. They can not replicate the kind of sound-shifts that a WELL PROGRAMMED (and that's the key!) POD can create for you at the push of a footswitch.
Who wants to watch a guitarist fiddle about with his amp for 10 minutes after every song whilst he attempts (and fails) to dial in the sound for the next song? With a POD, you do all your homework (sound-tests etc.) in the rehearsal studio, and live, you just tap your footswitch and hey-presto! Instant cool sound. So it's infinitely better to use a POD when it comes to versatility.
That brings me on to the subject of actual tone. A LOT of guys who experience bad tone from POD's simply don't know how to set them up. I realise that's a dangerous statement, which might incite a lot of 'reactive' posts, but I know there are also a ton of guys who just plain and simple prefer their tube amps. And that's fair enough. But in the vast majority of circumstances, a POD actually sounds better than the amp / cab it's modelling.
I have a bunch of tube amps, some vintage, some modern, and I know how to use them. Well. And in a variety of situations, including recording. I'm no mixing / mastering guru (not by a long shot) but I know how to create good guitar tones, and how to capture them for recording, too.
Now, I'm going to say something which is going to upset a few people (the 'ego-rig' chaps mainly) but I'll say it anyways (because I know from first-hand experience that it's true) - and that is: unless your valve amp is in pristine working condition, set-up perfectly, located in an acoustically-treated studio recording room, and mic'd up using a selection of the best microphones money can buy, then your amp will not sound better than a PROPERLY CONNECTED / SET-UP POD, which has been edited by someone who knows what sound / tone they're looking for and how to get it.
Programming / editing sounds is not actually as easy a task as it seems. A stack of 'users' expect to just dial in or make modifications to pre-sets and expect to get 'that' tone. In reality, getting the best tones is a skill and requires an experienced critical ear, a lot of experimentation, tweaking, and referencing on different sources and at different volumes. 'Bedroom axe-hero's' usually fall into one of two categories, a) don't know / care what 'good' tone is so just stick with pre-sets (which simply demo the extremities of the units possibilities / features), or b) get frustrated because they don't know HOW to get good tone out of that small, red kidney shaped 'toy'. Then they totally dismiss it out of hand and revert to the default "modellers are too fake / digital; valve-amps-are-best" argument.
But, back to the point… the opening post… I won’t be in a situation where I can test the POD direct to PA (not for a few weeks yet), but I am intending to give my POD a fair crack of the whip. If it sucks, then I'll report back openly and honestly as to WHY it sucks. The best argument I've heard yet is that there will be a 'hole' in the on-stage sound - i.e. I won’t be able to hear (monitor) my wonderful USA Fender strat Relic properly whilst playing live. I do have the option of feeding the guitar signal to one of the on-stage wedge monitors, but that might turn out to be a less-than-ideal work-around. We'll see. As has been mentioned, using a POD direct is about versatility, seamless switching between very different tonal sounds, without having to spend time dialling them in on stage. If the sound quality is poor, when pitched against my (high end) valve amp rig, then I'll let you know. If it's negligible, then I I'll be honest about it and tell ya'll. If it’s night-and-day, again, I'll say so. Plus it'll be great to not have to haul a big heavy rig around unnecessarily.
For now, if anyone has any experience of using such a set-up, or have tried it and decided against it, or any other musings, please share your thoughts?
Last edited:
G
Greg_L
Banned
Summary please.
muttley600
Banned
OK, here's one for you. I think he means this......
"I know this is going to upset a lot of people. Especially the ego-rig chaps but, I'm a cock who like the sound of my own keyboard. I know how to do all this shit and am going to tell you all about it.. Listen up......"
G
Greg_L
Banned
Hmmm, I skimmed it. Sounds like the dude has made up his mind. Lol. That's gonna be one sucky show. 
muttley600
Banned
Hmmm, I skimmed it. Sounds like the dude has made up his mind. Lol. That's gonna be one sucky show.
Win/win.
They get bottled off stage/We get a thread train wreck.
tigerflystudio
New member
what's with the hostility, chaps? Sorry for such a long post earlier. Was just trying to convey a few thoughts. I know you can't always please everybody (sometimes anybody), but I'm interested in feedback / thoughts from folk who've got some actual experience. Not bothered about what some people think 'looks' lame. I don't music to pose to.
G
Greg_L
Banned
No hostility, laddy. Cheerio and toodle pip.
Go rock that shit.
Go rock that shit.
muttley600
Banned
No hostility dude, just re read your last post. It's more "I think, I know, I say" than "what do you think or know?". You ain't interested in opinions you want people to confirm what you believe. A inerwebz bbs isn't really the place to find that.
Carry on..
Carry on..
G
Greg_L
Banned
I do have experience with it. Modellers suck live.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
Look back thru the thread.
I have experience using modelers thru a PA.
I do it all the time. I have a POD and 3 or 4 Digitechs and a V-Amp (which actually sounds better than the POD) and I play gigs ALL the time direct thru the PA.
And I've BEEN doing that for around ....... hmmmm, let's see ......... wow, almost 10 years so I've had LOTS of experience doing it that way
And I said so in an earlier thread.
I get decent results out of modelers thru a PA and trust me .... after doing this full time for a living for 40+ years I know how to get good tone.
It's absolutely a doable thing.
But No ..... a properly set up POD doesn't sound better than a good tube amp.
The only thing that you've made a good point for is the ability to program the next songs' sound. But I just reach over and hit the appropriate pedal on my pedalboard and I'm there. Not any harder than hitting the switch on my Floor Board.
Plus .... with my Mark V I have 3 wildly different tones available to me.
If you believe that the POD is the way to go then go on with yo' bad self.
I'm not prejudiced against them and use them all the time but anyone that thinks a POD sounds as good or better than a good tube amp doesn't know tone quite as well as he/she thinks they do.
mshilarious
Banned
OP, it will work fine, it will sound fine, fans won't notice or don't care even if they somehow realize there is no amp on stage. Most fans would prefer the band jump around more, so the extra stage space from the lack of amps is a good thing (IEMs are even better).
Most people here believe that if they stand in one place and play the same licks on the same instrument through the same amp with the same settings and same vintage toobs as guitarists have played for the last forty or fifty years, they will create something new and interesting.
And yet they wonder why bars have gone to DJs and karaoke . . .
Let's think about SRV for a minute. Do we realize how old he is (other than being dead, of course)? SRV played stuff that mostly emulated Hendrix, with a little bit of Gibbons-style Texas mixed in. But SRV played a mere ten years after Hendrix. SRV broke THIRTY YEARS AGO!
There is nothing from ten years ago worth emulating or improving upon. We can't keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. That is a definition of insanity.
So please, move forward and innovate. Someday soon a new music based upon technology and complete audience interaction and control will arise, and all of this jibber-jabber will seem quaint.
Most people here believe that if they stand in one place and play the same licks on the same instrument through the same amp with the same settings and same vintage toobs as guitarists have played for the last forty or fifty years, they will create something new and interesting.
And yet they wonder why bars have gone to DJs and karaoke . . .
Let's think about SRV for a minute. Do we realize how old he is (other than being dead, of course)? SRV played stuff that mostly emulated Hendrix, with a little bit of Gibbons-style Texas mixed in. But SRV played a mere ten years after Hendrix. SRV broke THIRTY YEARS AGO!
There is nothing from ten years ago worth emulating or improving upon. We can't keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. That is a definition of insanity.
So please, move forward and innovate. Someday soon a new music based upon technology and complete audience interaction and control will arise, and all of this jibber-jabber will seem quaint.
G
Greg_L
Banned
Lol @ innovate.
muttley600
Banned
You're on a roll these last few days MSH. Good work.
Can you enable animated avatars in my profile please. Thank you.
mshilarious
Banned
Sorry, I am incapable of innovating admin powers for myself
What's sad is I quote a few things Cage said twenty years ago about things he did forty years before that and people think it's all avant-garde or something. Just shows how irrelevant music has become.
muttley600
Banned
Sorry, I am incapable of innovating admin powers for myself
What's sad is I quote a few things Cage said twenty years ago about things he did forty years before that and people think it's all avant-garde or something. Just shows how irrelevant music has become.
Dude I didn't read all that shit twenty years ago, I'm hardly likely to read it now am I?
Now turn on animated avatars.
