WhiteStrat
Don't stare at the eye.
Good plan. I can't wait!
Good plan. I can't wait!
G
Greg_L
Banned
Dude, you should see the rig that I've gotten since Westfest.
Do tell................
Zaphod B
Raccoons-Be-Gone, Inc.
I still have the AC30. However....
I put together a rack amplifier system consisting of an Egnater M4 preamp, loaded with 4 dual-channel preamp modules, and a Randall RT2/50 channel-switching power amp. The Egnater is in a 6-space case with a Furman power supply, and the Randall power amp is in its own 2-space case.
The speaker cab is a nice 2 X 12 that I built - well, overbuilt. The sides are constructed of doubled-up 3/4" MDF and it is heavy as hell. Really fucking heavy.
The cab is loaded with Celestion G12K-85 speakers (which have recently been re-ID'd by Celestion as G12K-100s).I still have the pedal board that I brought to Westfest but it's got more, heavier stuff on it. There is also a MIDI foot controller involved for switching channels on the preamp and amp.
The whole mess sounds really good, and I can get anything from Fender clean to blow-your-ears-off hot-rod Marshall sounds.
Life used to be so much simpler. And lighter.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
True.
And to add to that...what I hate about modelers is that they ALWAYS sound the same!!!
If you dial in the same settings...it will always sound that way, every time, like a lifeless, artificial replication...or as I like to describe it....very homogenized.
A real tube amp breathes and pumps as you play it...and even minor fluctuations in electricity alter the tone...PLUS...you got the speaker actually working.
All that adds up to an organic sound, full of life, with small variations/fluctuations in tone from time to time and as you play.
But...I can see why some guys LIKE having "always the same tone" from their rigs. It has a lot to do with NOT having your own signature tones…and more so with needing to emulate someone else's tones as whatever the original recording sounds like....so yeah, a modeler makes that easy from gig to gig.
You just step on a button...nothing more.
But the playing experience...the interaction with the guitar/amp/speaker....is NEVER there...
darrin_h2000
Banned
But you have to have monitors...even if you have the inner ear ones...and you can get some of those wedge monitors that are light enough to work with.
Ill bet in ten years everyone will have the amp simulators and most of the amps will have gone by the way of analog tape....its already happening...listened to any pop lately?...they have already made drummers obsolete...(sorry Greg)
Maybe even the more sophisticated guitar electronics like the line6 variax line will be rather normal...Fender is already are making a strat to copy it...at least you will only need one guitar and one amp to cover what you would have needed alot more equipment to do.
darrin_h2000
Banned
True.
And to add to that...what I hate about modelers is that they ALWAYS sound the same!!!
If you dial in the same settings...it will always sound that way, every time, like a lifeless, artificial replication...or as I like to describe it....very homogenized.
Yes you can say that...they do seem to lack minor imperfections that set one strat from another strat...a variax model seems to sound exactly alike no matter which one you pick up...even with different strings on them...but Id only say that is a minor thing...and you can add stompboxes to degrade the signal.
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
To be fair, I always offer to give the drummer a hand carrying shit after I've packed up my rig.
You HAVE to have monitors? Tell that to some of the dives I've played.
The way of analog tape, eh? Still the uncontested preferred way to track when cost isn't an issue because of its natural compression and warmth? I'll certainly be watching modeling to see where it goes, and it's an approach with a lot of potential, but people made the same dire projections back in the early days of solid state, and the tube amp market has only gotten better since then.
And the Variax is a soulless POS. Those very "imperfections" as you call them are the things that make individual guitars so exciting.
And I could cover a pretty diverse set with a single guitar and a single amp - the player matters a lot more than the gear, in my experience.
Zaphod B
Raccoons-Be-Gone, Inc.
I have always helped any drummer who has helped haul in the other crap.
I've worked with a couple that couldn't be bothered.
gcapel
boom box recordings
Well I guess that's the difference in listening to spoon feeding cocka (pop) and listening to something real.
The wheel was invented somewhere around the 4th millennium BCE. It is still a damn good invention that is well used.
darrin_h2000
Banned
Actually they work...and not only do they have soul...but a brain too...lol.
And the Variax is a soulless POS. Those very "imperfections" as you call them are the things that make individual guitars so exciting.
And Ill be they thought the idea of an indoor toilet sounded gross and insane to the people of the 1880s...but how many outhouses do you see in your neighborhood nowdays?...its progress...not the rocket car I wanted...but a guitar that sounds like 25 guitars...and an amp that sounds like 16 amps isnt bad.
darrin_h2000
Banned
I have always helped any drummer who has helped haul in the other crap.
Ive gotten my drummers high.
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
Risers don't count.
You and I will have to agree to disagree on Line6, then. I've been underwhelmed with their modeling amps, and for me half the point of having a couple different guitars is how they inspire you to play in different directions. The day you can push a button and the Variax goes from a 25.5" scale guitar with double cutaways and a maple fretboard with a vintage style trem and jumbo fretwire to a 24.75" ebony boarded stop tailpiece design with double hums, a single cutaway, and a heavier, uncontoured body with a thicker neck and smaller fretwire is the day I get interested.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Why bother...the modeler is already degrading it enough!!!
PS…
Tube amps will be around as long as there are guitars.
There are MORE tube amps being manufactured today than there were back when modelers didn't exist...and by many more tube amp manufacturers than there were back then.
Tube amp manufacturing is booming...from the cheap assembly line stuff to the dozens and dozens of high-end "boutique" builders.
Most discerning players will always opt for a real tube amp...though I'm sure some will use a modeler under certain circumstances, but they will rarely prefer one over a real tube amp.
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
Never say never... ...but it'd take a pretty big leap from the current state of technology to get a lot of converts and even then I wouldn't be surprised if tubes still manage to keep relevant. When Line6 started getting people sold on the idea of 32 different "amps" in a single enclosure, tube manufacturers started producing things like the Mesa Road King and the Engl SE that offered similar flexibility in an all tube format.
WhiteStrat
Don't stare at the eye.
Risers don't count.
You and I will have to agree to disagree on Line6, then. I've been underwhelmed with their modeling amps, and for me half the point of having a couple different guitars is how they inspire you to play in different directions. The day you can push a button and the Variax goes from a 25.5" scale guitar with double cutaways and a maple fretboard with a vintage style trem and jumbo fretwire to a 24.75" ebony boarded stop tailpiece design with double hums, a single cutaway, and a heavier, uncontoured body with a thicker neck and smaller fretwire is the day I get interested.
Excellent point Drew. Different pieces of gear (amps or guits) have their own intangible feel--almost a personality. My guitars push me & pull me in different directions by more than just their sound--it's the look and feel and weight. My amps definitely do the same.
D
dintymoore
Guest
You know in a symphony, to a violinist, when he plays, to his ears, he is way louder in the mix than he is out front.
When a guitarist has an amp beside him, he can blast it and hear himself louder than anyone, like the violinist.
That seems to be normal, that we want to monitor ourselves louder than it will be in the final mix. I do that when I record every track.
The problem comes when the guitarist is on stage playing through the pa and how does he monitor himself slightly hotter like the violinist?
By playing too loud.
Very, very few guitarists have the control, self discipline and wisdom to not play too loud in the mix when they play through the pa. Maybe I wouldn't even want to play with a guitarist that was that cerebral.
Maybe the guys in the Eagles have separate mixes for each guy to cover that, I wouldn't be surprised.
When a guitarist has an amp beside him, he can blast it and hear himself louder than anyone, like the violinist.
That seems to be normal, that we want to monitor ourselves louder than it will be in the final mix. I do that when I record every track.
The problem comes when the guitarist is on stage playing through the pa and how does he monitor himself slightly hotter like the violinist?
By playing too loud.
Very, very few guitarists have the control, self discipline and wisdom to not play too loud in the mix when they play through the pa. Maybe I wouldn't even want to play with a guitarist that was that cerebral.
Maybe the guys in the Eagles have separate mixes for each guy to cover that, I wouldn't be surprised.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
To me....guitars and tube amps are like dragsters and combustion engines.
Yeah...they have electric motors that can make a car fly down the track...but it JUST AIN'T THE SAME.
There's always been a symbiotic-like relationship between electric guitars and tube amps. They were made to go together.
Even when tubes were on the way out back in the early 80s and amp manufacturers thought solid state amps would be better and could replace tube amps...it didn't fly...and neither will the modelers.
I'm not saying modelers will not be used more and more...but I still think most guitar players will want to have at least one or two sweet tube amps around.
I don't own any modelers...well, no digital crap...but I do have a Tech 21 SansAmp that I bought about 15 years ago...and haven't used in 12 years.
I have a half dozen tube amps and mostly analog stomps with a few digital units that offer parallel processing of the signal.
That's the only way I will ever fly...so yeah...for myself, I CAN say *never*.
G
Greg_L
Banned
I still have the AC30. However....
I put together a rack amplifier system consisting of an Egnater M4 preamp, loaded with 4 dual-channel preamp modules, and a Randall RT2/50 channel-switching power amp. The Egnater is in a 6-space case with a Furman power supply, and the Randall power amp is in its own 2-space case.
The speaker cab is a nice 2 X 12 that I built - well, overbuilt. The sides are constructed of doubled-up 3/4" MDF and it is heavy as hell. Really fucking heavy.
I still have the pedal board that I brought to Westfest but it's got more, heavier stuff on it. There is also a MIDI foot controller involved for switching channels on the preamp and amp.
The whole mess sounds really good, and I can get anything from Fender clean to blow-your-ears-off hot-rod Marshall sounds.
Life used to be so much simpler. And lighter.
Sounds nice. Pics dude!
G
Greg_L
Banned
Wrong. Tube amps have been around for over half a century and haven't been beaten yet. All this technology we have now, in 2010, and we still have yet to hear anything beat a quality tube amp. Solid state? Pfffft please. Only n00bs and retards use that shit. Modellers have their place, but will never replace the cool factor and tonal superiority of a tube amp at full power.
As for pop music replacing real players, that's mostly nonsense. Maybe in the studio, but the live performance is where it's at. Even total shit like Mariah Carey and Miley Cyrus have real players on stage playing real instruments.
mshilarious
Banned
In a big show everybody has their own monitor mix, especially with IEMs. Even in the small shows I help with we generally run two monitor mixes, we can run up to four.
I don't listen to my bass louder than everyone else, usually I'll stand next to drums so that will be the loudest thing I hear.