Group Buy Interest?

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I'm definitely up for another group buy.

Wasn't there something in the user console when you first paid, stating that that you were taking a risk being a participant in the group buy. I completely understood what I was getting into and have no gripes at all. I've been waiting on this group buy for over 18 months and now am waiting some more to see what fixes there will be.

I'm as happy as a pig in mud ( pigs aren't happy in their own shat )!!:D:D:D

Now I thought I was the only one that is happy as a pig in mud, but looks like I have company.
 
One concern with future group buys-- many Chinese factories are closing, even the one that made all(most?) the Mackie gear. Just a thought, we could pay and then they could go under was a risk before of course, but with all the recent closures.... Is there any way to get insurance?

Don't know how the law works over in China but in our system you would count as an unsecured creditor and be at the bottom of the pile for refunds if it went belly up. If you paid your way into the group buy via credit card, though, you could get cover from them and they would then probably attempt to recover it from the firm organising the buy ('selling gear to you guys').
 
Don't know how the law works over in China but in our system you would count as an unsecured creditor and be at the bottom of the pile for refunds if it went belly up. If you paid your way into the group buy via credit card, though, you could get cover from them and they would then probably attempt to recover it from the firm organising the buy ('selling gear to you guys').

Actually, my understanding is a person can challenge a credit card purchase up to 60 days, 2 months. On our next buy, if we order in March and find out in August the factory closed their doors, we are out of luck for any credit card help. With that said, bring on the next group buy because I am in..... again!!!!

Charlie
 
i have a 73 on the way to me...

hopefully it works ok!!! (eq doesnt matter to me)
 
Actually, my understanding is a person can challenge a credit card purchase up to 60 days, 2 months. On our next buy, if we order in March and find out in August the factory closed their doors, we are out of luck for any credit card help. With that said, bring on the next group buy because I am in..... again!!!!

Charlie

The law might be totally different in the States for all I know, but yes, on a credit card here you could get the money back. But then the credit card company (I know because I did this with a retailer who went bust on me last year) would try and recover their money from the original recipient of the payment. This, as I understand it, would be whoever is collecting money before making the one order from China; in this case, Chance's business.
 
I tested out my 310 after a 24 hour burn-in and it sounded great. I set it up tonight to record with it and it sounds like it's breaking up when I get on it a bit.

Two questions. I'm going to open it up so what should I look for and what should I be careful of? Also, does anyone know if the power supplies and the multi-pin cables for the 310 and the 900 are the same? They look like they are. If so, I can check that as a possible source of the problem. Thanks.

Paul:D
 
Two questions. I'm going to open it up so what should I look for and what should I be careful of? Also, does anyone know if the power supplies and the multi-pin cables for the 310 and the 900 are the same?
The 310 is really high output, and it will have a tendency to push downstream components (like your preamp) into clipping - make sure that's not what's happening, and if so turn down and/or use a pad. I guess I don't know about whether the power supply is the same, but you're right - they look the same. When I have my equipment out, I'll test voltages and stuff (unless someone beats me to the punch, which usually happens :D). The 7 pin cable that attaches the power supply to the mic, in my opinion, warrants replacing, and could be the cause of cut-outs. I replaced mine early on with some mogami cables that I was lucky to find in the bargain bin at guitar center. I bet the pinout is the same between the 310 and 900, but, again, haven't tested. I know it's the same between the 310 and the 6802T (but of course, those power supplies are different)
 
The 310 is really high output, and it will have a tendency to push downstream components (like your preamp) into clipping - make sure that's not what's happening, and if so turn down and/or use a pad. I guess I don't know about whether the power supply is the same, but you're right - they look the same. When I have my equipment out, I'll test voltages and stuff (unless someone beats me to the punch, which usually happens :D). The 7 pin cable that attaches the power supply to the mic, in my opinion, warrants replacing, and could be the cause of cut-outs. I replaced mine early on with some mogami cables that I was lucky to find in the bargain bin at guitar center. I bet the pinout is the same between the 310 and 900, but, again, haven't tested. I know it's the same between the 310 and the 6802T (but of course, those power supplies are different)
Thanks AC. I'd like to know how to test those if you don't mind.

The 310 didn't sound like it was overdriving the pre. It sounded more like a crackling, like a component had come loose. I did check it in another pre and it did the same thing. It sounded fine the first time I tested it. Could I be overdriving the tube?

I went ahead and opened the 310. Very easy, similar to the new MXL 603s. Three tiny set screws (threaded backwards) and the whole PC board and connector slides right out. Contact with the capsule is a single spring loaded brass pin (just like the 603s). The mini tube is hard wired, (rats) although the hold down strap is screwed to the board, (unlike the 900, which is soldered). It all looked fine.

Paul:D
 
ACMP-81 humming redux

I'm looking into this on one of mine right now. Here's what I've figured out so far:

1. Moving the three black-jacketed audio signal cables. The hum is directly proportional to the distance between the two phase cables. If you put the cables right beside one another, the hum almost completely disappears. Touching the output level cable near the pot end causes the hum to get worse.

Moving these cables doesn't cause hum to appear -ever- while the EQ is disengaged, though. Not sure what's going on there beyond that the shields on these cables are notable in their absence.

This suggests to me that perhaps the hum is getting induced on the ground wires that are part of those two cables, then managing to make it into the EQ due to a poor (high-resistance) ground in the EQ boards. That said, wrapping the cables with aluminum foil and grounding it didn't make any detectable difference over ungrounded foil, which is a little surprising. *scratches head*

2. The center bold through the toroidal transformer is NOT grounded. Admittedly, grounding it didn't help significantly with the hum, but I'm still not thrilled about being able to measure .3VAC between the core and ground. :) The same can be said about every metal screw in every switch on the front panel. There's some serious induction going on there.

In any case, the fact that I was able to drop the hum to an almost undetectable level by shifting the position of those black-jacketed signal cables tells me something. I'm just not sure what yet. :D
 
Okay, here's what I've tried thus far:

1. The phase cable. I disconnected it, hooked up a jumper, and moved the cable so that it hung outside the other end of the case. No significant change except when moving it around near where it is supposed to be.

2. The volume cable. I disconnected it, jumpered it, and did the same thing.

3. Transformer placement. I tried moving it outside the case just behind the unit and it made no significant change in the hum.

Too tired to think about this further tonight.
 
DgatWood - the 81's hum is different than the hum in the 73 or 84.

It's the fact that the 81 has improperly spec'd transistors.
Now, once the transistors are replaced there will probably ALSO be inducted hum that'll need to be fixed too. But the transistor hum is so loud it's doubtful you'd be able to hear the inducted hum.

Zmix troubleshot the issue and posted this:

zmix said:
The TnC 81 hum problem was exactly as I had theorized:

The amplifier circuits in the EQ sections were oscillating, leading to RF induced hum and overheating.

Chance sent me some NTE substitutions for the for the parts I requested, I swapped them out and everything is running absolutely perfectly.

I do NOT recommend that these parts (NTE-186 and NTE-187) be used under any circumstance except with an expert repair person installing them because the pinouts do NOT match the actual part and it requires some pretty dicey crossing of the leads to fit them into the board... not a good bet for reliability.


To Sum up:

NOT powersupply related
NOT grounding related
NOT layout related
NOT induced EMI related
NOT wiring related

Also, NOT manufacturer error... the part in the schematic is the part used, and it is simply the wrong part for the circuit. the fix will be to order the correct parts for each of the 4 EQ boards ( Q4 must be a BC461 - 6 and Q5 must be BC441 - 6). The input board and HP / LP boards are fine as they are..
 
would the ACM 6802 sound good on a kick drum? it sounded great for bass thanks..
 
DgatWood - the 81's hum is different than the hum in the 73 or 84.

It's the fact that the 81 has improperly spec'd transistors.
Now, once the transistors are replaced there will probably ALSO be inducted hum that'll need to be fixed too. But the transistor hum is so loud it's doubtful you'd be able to hear the inducted hum.

Zmix troubleshot the issue and posted this:

While that may have been a problem with Zmix's unit, I'm fairly certain that this is not what is wrong with mine. A transistor oscillating should not go away as long as that path through the circuit is active. By contrast, all the fader does is adjust how much of the signal passes through the inductor in the feedback loop. That shouldn't be enough to trigger this. The behavior I'm seeing is 100% consistent with hum induced in the inductors, all the way down to the complex interaction with nearby resistors causing nulls in the hum near each end.

Further, the capacitors in the power supply keep the circuit at a usable operating voltage for probably half a second after the power switch goes off, and for that first tenth of a second, it's very close to 24VDC. I can hear the input in the output for about half a second. In spite of this, the hum goes away instantaneously when the power switch goes off. If this were caused by overheating of the transistor, it would gradually drop as the input voltage dropped. I'm just not hearing anything like that. The only rail that falls off quickly enough for this to make sense is the 12V rail, but that only powers lights and op amps for clip indicators---nothing in the signal path.

Based on that, I think the problem can only be either induced hum in the inductors or ripple in the power supply. I don't have a scope, so all I can do is check for AC with a voltmeter. I'm showing about 0.02VAC on the +24V rail. All the other rails read 0 as expected. That might well be just noisy enough to cause the problems in question, and if so, it would completely explain why moving the transformer outside the case didn't solve the problem for me.

The next thing I tried was stacking two units with their tops off upside down on top of one another to see if adding a second one increased the hum. No change. Switching off the power switch causes the hum to go away instantly with the second unit on top of it and powered. I got the transformer of the second (humming) unit pretty close to the real transformer. Bearing in mind that when testing to see if repositioning the built-in transformer made a difference, I moved it much farther out than the transformer in the second unit was, it seems clear that if the other hum-inducing transformer doesn't cause hum when placed in a similar position, it isn't induced hum I'm hearing... unless it is being induced by load on the 12V rail.

That was easy to test. I unplug the 30V center-tapped secondary that feeds the 12V rail. I lost all the lights and clip indicators, but everything else worked. It still hums very badly in that configuration. Therefore, I agree with Zmix's assessment that most of the hum is not induced.

I tried switching to use the 24VDC supply that fed a not-significantly-humming 73's EQ section, but got the same hum. Since I swapped the only path that 24VDC can take into the EQ boards and since the main preamp stage is obviously not affected by this hum, that implies that I'm seeing a power ripple that occurs on all of the supplies, but only affects the 81 to that extent for some reason. Such a supply ripple could also explain why the 73 hums slightly at high gain.

So at this point, I'm trying to figure out why I'm seeing a supply ripple. My gut says I should replace the LM317 variable regulator with a 7924, snip out R2, and replace R1 and C11 with a jumper.
 
So at this point, I'm trying to figure out why I'm seeing a supply ripple. My gut says I should replace the LM317 variable regulator with a 7924, snip out R2, and replace R1 and C11 with a jumper.
Although I'm getting about 20% of this, I'm still riveted - also bumming out on that bagful of replacement transistors I got, but I can still try them out (after I try some of the things you mentioned)

edit: oh, and if you go back to looking at the transistors, and can't find any BC441/BC461, PM me your postal addy and I'll mail you some - I've got some extras (maybe a whole lot of extras, depending on where you wind up, assuming I have the same problem :D)
 
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dgatwood

excellent troubleshooting!!



do you have a large value capacitor

of sufficient voltage sitting around?

(say 5000+ uF [the larger the better] @35+VDC)

try paralleling that across

the problematic leg of the

power supply

to see it it further reduces

the hum intensity
 
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Another pre update. Used the ACMP's AGAIN last night on a drum session. And again, I was floored. Absolutely killer. EQ or not. I mean, I want an EQ, but the pre's are phenomenal by themselves.

bp
 
Another pre update. Used the ACMP's AGAIN last night on a drum session. And again, I was floored. Absolutely killer. EQ or not. I mean, I want an EQ, but the pre's are phenomenal by themselves.
sweet -- for snare, kick, toms, overheads?
 
So at this point, I'm trying to figure out why I'm seeing a supply ripple. My gut says I should replace the LM317 variable regulator with a 7924, snip out R2, and replace R1 and C11 with a jumper.
that might work

but i'd use a 7824 :)
 
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