got me a 244, any personal preferences ya'll could recommend?

[koalabearsoup]

working like a charm. I have a series of questions.

I'm new to analog but not new to recording, been doing it for about 3 years every day. Many swear by the 244 and now that I've got one I can really see why.

Now I'd really like to get as much out of it as I possibly can. I really appreciate how helpful you all are and have been and continue to be on this website, no personal gain to you and you still offer your time and energy? Almost unheard of these days. Keep it up guys.

Most of all, right now I'm wondering, what's your tape of preference for the 244?

Any sort of mic preferences? My dad taught me to fear the new and trust the old, and I've enjoyed using a sm-57 which I heard was supposed to be some sort of industry standard or some crap, and I liked it, but I was using new digital stuff. Is there any difference as far as the age of the mic? I want to be recording vocals and an amp as well. I know different types of mics are supposed to get different sort of vocal sounds right?

Is it generally preferred to mic an amp instead of just directly inputting the guitar from a pedal of some sort? I'm going to guess that's a yes, but could you explain this to me a little?

Is there a marked difference between "digital" effects pedals, or "analog" effects pedals as far as quality goes, do you think it would make a difference when recording analog?

Also I have a mackie mixer... don't remember the model at the moment... but are there mixers that are used specifically for recording, and mixers specifically used for live stuff, and they don't overlap? Is there a difference in the integrity of the sound between older mixers and newer mixers?

For vocals, do most use a tube pre-amp as the only thing between the mic and the recorder? Are there any particular advantages or disadvantages to any or all of these configurations or their opposites? I've been recording a while and have recorded a literal shit ton, but I have not had any formal learning about any of this stuff, most of the stuff I know was just from tinkering around, lots of trial and error. Your wisdom may perhaps prevent further errors on my part!

On the 244, any tips as for multi-tracking the vocals and stuff? I haven't learned how to "bounce" yet on the 244 but I'm sure I could learn myself, but is there any particular recommended method for multitracking this alongside other freshly laid music, drums, bass, guitars also possibly needing to be multitracked?

Ive screwed around with mixing a little bit too, and I vaguely remember some sort of thing about the layer of the track making a difference in the sound? Is this also how a 4 track works? Are there particular orders that are used to record vocals, drums, bass, guitar and all that, just it just depend on the sort of sound you want?

Thanks a lot you guys, I can't thank you enough for the good advice I've gotten on this website. Any pointers, advice, words of wisdom, recommendations for literature, tutorials, anything at all would help me out a lot.

 

[famous beagle]

Congrats on the score! Lots of questions here, but I'll tackle a few:

I know different types of mics are supposed to get different sort of vocal sounds right?

Generally, dynamic mics (like the SM57) are used more often for more aggressive vocals. Large diaphragm condenser mics are used more often for vocals though. They're much more detailed in the high register and therefore provide a more intimate sound. Neumann is the industry standard in this regard, if there is one, but they're thousands of dollars. Many people get great results with mics in the $200 - $300 range, such as a Rode NT 1000, Studio Projects C1, etc. However, these mics require phantom power, so unless you're using an external mic pre (see below), you'll need an external phantom power supply ($20 or so used on eBay).

Is it generally preferred to mic an amp instead of just directly inputting the guitar from a pedal of some sort? I'm going to guess that's a yes, but could you explain this to me a little?
You hear all kinds of views on this. There are purists who claim that anything other than a genuine tube amp is a piece of trash. The truth is that people get great guitar sounds with all kinds of equipment. It's not terribly common to run from guitar to pedal to 244, but it's common to use some kind of amp simulator direct recording unit, such as a Line 6 Pod, Behringer V-amp, etc. Either of those can be had for probably $60 to $100 (or less maybe, it's been a while) on ebay, and they're capable of getting a wide array of convincing tones. Miking an amp can yield great tone too (obviously), but it's louder, and you have to know what you're doing a bit more, IMO.

Is there a marked difference between "digital" effects pedals, or "analog" effects pedals as far as quality goes, do you think it would make a difference when recording analog?

Again, you'll hear all kinds of opinions on the first part of this question. Regarding the last part, I'd say no, not really, in my experience.

Also I have a mackie mixer... don't remember the model at the moment... but are there mixers that are used specifically for recording, and mixers specifically used for live stuff, and they don't overlap? Is there a difference in the integrity of the sound between older mixers and newer mixers?

Yes there is definitely an overlap. Genuinely speaking, you want as many buss outs for a recording mixer. A typical setup might be a 24 channel with 8 sub outs. But mixers often have direct outs on each channel too, so that's not always an issue. However, your 244 has a built-in mixer, so you don't really need one at all.

For vocals, do most use a tube pre-amp as the only thing between the mic and the recorder?
Most people use some kind of preamp between the mic and the recorder, but it's just as often solid state as it is tube. Many classic mic preamps, like the Neve N72, for example, are solid state. Your 244 has preamps in each channel, so you technically don't need an external pre (you would need a phantom power supply if using a condenser mic, see above), but it may help you get a better sound. You should feel free to experiment in this regard. If you do use an external pre (solid state or tube), it will most likely come with phantom power, so that's a plus. But when you come into the 244 from the external pre, you'll need to turn the input trim down to line level (as opposed to mic level) because the signal will have already been boosted by the external pre.

On the 244, any tips as for multi-tracking the vocals and stuff? I haven't learned how to "bounce" yet on the 244 but I'm sure I could learn myself, but is there any particular recommended method for multitracking this alongside other freshly laid music, drums, bass, guitars also possibly needing to be multitracked?

Most people start with the rhythm tracks first. Maybe you record a stereo drum kit on tracks 1 and 2, bass on track 3, and guitar on track 4 (let's say). Then you can do an external bounce (essentially a mixdown) to some other recorder, such as your computer, for example. Then you bring that stereo mix (of drums, bass, and guitar) back to two tracks of the 244. You can even use a later portion of the tape so you don't erase over your original tracks. (This is handy if you later decide that you really botched that submix and need to do it again.) This frees up tracks 3 and 4 for more instruments, vocals, etc.

One of the big tricks to getting more instruments on the 4-track without getting a bunch of added noise (each bounce will add a bit of noise, though noise reduction helps with this a lot) is by tracking another instrument during the bounce procedures. For example, in the above example, while you're bouncing the drums, bass, and guitar over to the computer, you could also be playing a second rhythm guitar part "live," for example, which would also be recorded into the computer. And when you bring back those instruments (drums, bass, rhythm guitar 1, and rhythm guitar 2) back to the 244, you could add a keyboard part "live" as well. That way, after one bounce, you'd end up with 5 instruments on two tracks (drums, bass, guitar 1, guitar 2, and keys), and they'd be in a stereo mix.

Of course, this takes a little pre-planning, and you have you decide where you want those new parts to be panned, get the levels/EQ right, etc., and get them in one take. So it's not something you can just decide to do on a whim. It takes a little foresight. But it's a great way to get more without sacrificing quality.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

 

[cjacek]

famous beagle: Way to go on helping the guy out like that. Good stuff man.

 

[4tracker]

With regard to mics, I recommend an EV RE11, Nohype Audio LRM1 for your ribbon, and an oktava mk 012 for small condenser. Line Audio CM3 is supposedly nice and a good value, but i haven't tried it. If you listen to the most recent upload here that's my girlfriend singing through a LRM-1 on a 244. They are really nice for the price and I suspect won't remain so cheap forever. I think RE-11s sound great for vocals and almost anything else. Similar to SM57s to my ears, but I prefer them to the SM57. A weird mic that doesn't get much love is a Shure Spherodyne 335. It is hi-z and omni so considered a harp mic, but it sounds awesome for room ambiance and a dirty vocal (e.g. The Strokes, etc). For large diaphragm a shure ksm32 sounds nice and is affordable. That was the best value I found years ago, but I don't use large diaphragms anymore so not really sure. I've always been on a budget and these are the mics I've owned/liked.

Congrats on your 244; they are awesome.

 

[Hammerstone]

Colorado Springs just got a Music-go-round a few days ago, I popped in and got myself an Audio Technica input transformer for $4.00. I agonized about buying one a few months back and if I knew I could pick one up used for $4.00 I probably wouldn't have whined so much about it.