Going cheap, a big no no!

[TeyshaBlue]

I've worked with two SAMA award winning artists (John Ellis and Reason), as well as a ton of up and coming bands and yes on the behringer and on the Midas. So far I've clocked 20-30 hours on the Midas (next year it’s being upgraded to a digidesign venue) and well over a hundred with a behringer (and hated every moment of it). I must say I have been mixing live for a year which might not sound impressive but where my cash lacks my time doesn't. I mix 4-5 times a week and at the beginning of the years I mixed 7 times a week.

I would like to add I do stand corrected (Lt. Bob) some necessarily cheap stuff isn't crap, but the fact remains in sound equipment you generally get what you pay for. I would like to tell you something one of my friends (who is studying recording) asked me. If a top brand (Sound Craft, Yamaha) makes a product for R10000, Behringer can make it for R2000, why?

Soundcraft and Yamaha dont make a product for R10000, they sell it for R100000. Part of the desparity in pricing is that their margins are typically much higher than Behri's. Behri runs in a league with Alesis as far as thinner profit margins are concerned...that's why you'll find very few retail establishments that will deal on pricing with these brands.
That's only part of the equation, however. I'll see if you can figure out the rest.
As far as "working" with John Ellis and Reason....put yer dick back in yer pants.

 

[kcearl]

You're an idiot. Grow a pube and come back in 3 years.

i just shaved mine off...and funny enough i now hate behringer mixers..its all in the pubes


shit that means Darrin also has a shaven haven

 

[TeyshaBlue]

I must say I am new to recording, but as a live engineer I can do much more with a Midas legend 3000 that has a 4 band parametric eq than what I can do with a behringer that has a 3 band sweep type eq. The added quality of the eq also makes a difference. I am sure that with recording the same applies.

It kills me I came into this thread so late. There's so much material to work with...

A knowledgeable engineer can do anything he wants to with a 3 band sweep. Ever heard of frequency selective phase cancellation? I was introduced to this by a seasoned engineer who learned it from someone else... (identical in principle to steerable broadcasting arrays)..presumably because he had to work with consoles that were not as capable as today's.

Look your OP is flawed....admit it and learn something.
Cheap gear is not always desireable. But, don't confuse disireablitly with effectiveness.

 

[darrin_h2000]

why does it have such a large foothold?


surely after one dissapointment no one goes back to it?


or are they not dissapointed?

Id be surprised if anyone bought a bigger behringer after using a smaller one...the reason for thier foothold on the market is that you can buy one of thier 8 channel mixers for under $100...and alot of people are too cheap to buy quality.
Im sure its the same with your little motorbike...theres a difference between a vespa and a Hog...but they both serve a similer function.

 

[TeyshaBlue]

Id be surprised if anyone bought a bigger behringer after using a smaller one...the reason for thier foothold on the market is that you can buy one of thier 8 channel mixers for under $100...and alot of people are too cheap to buy quality.
Im sure its the same with your little motorbike...theres a difference between a vespa and a Hog...but they both serve a similer function.

I think they claimed their foothold when they blatantly ripped off Mackie's 8-bus consoles...all the way down to the color of the knobs and faders. It was ridiculously accurate knockoff from a standpoint of appearances. Mackie was beginning to really make inroads in the retail world back in the 90's then Behringer hopped on for the ride. It worked.

Mackie sued Behri's ass and ultimately settled out of court. Now Roland is on their ass for pretty much the same thing with the Boss pedal line.

 

[kcearl]

Id be surprised if anyone bought a bigger behringer after using a smaller one...the reason for thier foothold on the market is that you can buy one of thier 8 channel mixers for under $100...and alot of people are too cheap to buy quality.
Im sure its the same with your little motorbike...theres a difference between a vespa and a Hog...but they both serve a similer function.

eh no...a hog is just an expensive motorcycle with outdated performance that performs as badly as a vespa...cheaper mass produced japanese crotch rockets out perform hogs in every single area except in the "poser" stakes

bad analogy dude


in your opinion its because the masses use 802 mixers...do you actually have any statistics or sales figures to back that up?

Ive read that the UB 1622FX-PRO and the ULTRAFEX PRO along with Truth monitors are some of their best selling gear (and big sellers generally in their fields)

Also I owned an 802..it was so good I bought a 1604A but kept the 802 to run a drum machine through before it even reaches the main mixer..theyre very quiet

 

[Jean-Pierre]

Oh come on now,
now YOU be the adult!
This kid is amazing for 16, and uh, yeah, he could use some more life experience LOL.

(it'll take a lot more then three years)

Thanks and that is so true I have a lot to learn.

I tried that. Not for me.

The thing is, you have this 16 year old schmuck stating the obvious and trying to make it sound like he's fucking "enlightened". Of course everyone would love to have top of the line gear.

But this embryo, who hasn't even had time to make enough mistakes to learn from, doesn't get the concept that even the best gear in a clown's hands is not going to get you anywhere. On the other side of the coin, a good, experienced engineer can make better recordings with a panasonic cassette player than a bozo with no talent will make at Abbey Road Studios.

Dude lives with mommy, probably has never seen a live pussy, but here he is trying to preach to people....all based on his ONE YEAR of live sound expereince...oh, and I almost forgot, he also has a friend that goes to recording school. .

Give me a fucking break.

If you have something to say say it to my face otherwise shut your trap.

I now say that my op is flawed in ways but also for those out there that have not read all the posts I worked on a bloody behringer for a year I know its crap I have not heard somewhere that its crap. My ideaologies come from those I done apprenticeship under, I didn't just decide one day I'm going to start doing sound I got asked.

 

[Jean-Pierre]

It kills me I came into this thread so late. There's so much material to work with...

A knowledgeable engineer can do anything he wants to with a 3 band sweep. Ever heard of frequency selective phase cancellation? I was introduced to this by a seasoned engineer who learned it from someone else... (identical in principle to steerable broadcasting arrays)..presumably because he had to work with consoles that were not as capable as today's.

Look your OP is flawed....admit it and learn something.
Cheap gear is not always desireable. But, don't confuse disireablitly with effectiveness.

Have you worked on a cheap mixer after working on a top quality console. Yes I heart a lot from the behringer, like how to ignore its stupid meterbridge and clip lights and how to find the right frequence by listening and not looking at the info provided by the desk since it is inaccurate but that is stuff I learnt under apprenticeship aswell.

 

[halfred]

[QUOTE Jean-Pierre

"If you have something to say say it to my face otherwise shut your trap.


That's the spirit, now drop out of what promises to be an escalating "relationship" struggle, and the "name calling", which is very distasteful and inappropriate, not to mention unproductive, and try to find the information or feedback that you may be seeking.

 

[TeyshaBlue]

Have you worked on a cheap mixer after working on a top quality console. Yes I heart a lot from the behringer, like how to ignore its stupid meterbridge and clip lights and how to find the right frequence by listening and not looking at the info provided by the desk since it is inaccurate but that is stuff I learnt under apprenticeship aswell.

Hell yes, I have! A couple of decades ago I was tracking on some fine consoles only to go home to my Peavey Unity mixer that I was using to feed an 8 track cassette!
I get it....but do you? I think you're starting too. Work with what you've got...it aint always pretty...and I'll agree that generally, good gear makes it easier to get good results...but I can get pretty much whatever I need to get on whatever is at hand...unless it's just fatally flawed.

 

[scott free]

Thanks and that is so true I have a lot to learn...my op is flawed in ways but...

I'm learning so much at this forum, some of the more important things are...

1)When someone asks a question, answer it with a question, and the question has to make the other person feel uncomfortable and stupid.
2)When someone replies to the OP, engage in how the reply is flawed and avoid the OP all together.
3)Make an active choice to continue wth the pissing contest and point out the flaws in the second, third,fourth etc. replies, and boast about how much you know.
4)Quote people to make them look stupid and feel bad and offer no real help to the OP
5) no matter what, be the authority on what ever it is you are talking about, and if you're not, act like you are.
6)Blast a bunch of figures and specs at those you know won't understand, to feel better about yourself and separate yourself from others.

OK I'm done ranting.

So back to cheap gear...
We all have some.
One person's trash is another person's treasure.
Some have done a lot more with a lot less.
Use what you got, do the best you can, learn from it, and have fun.

Thanks,
Scott.

 

[Jean-Pierre]

I learnt a lot of stuff here and I think I found that I got answered. A lot of people like doing things the cheap way and thus make it extremely hard for someone like me to move into the recording business but that just drives me on to be better than the rest. I do intend to start small with a digidesign mbox 2 pro which here in Sa will put me back around 12-14 k. And I will get that money from live sound. My other option is joining some of my teachers in their studios or live work or even go and work for a small studio but either way my question is answered I am going into the sound reinforcement industry, a question that I have been asking for a while. I have also learnt that some grown men can act worse than a 16 year old and others can change a 16 year olds view on things. Each party knows who they are.

 

[darrin_h2000]

eh no...a hog is just an expensive motorcycle with outdated performance that performs as badly as a vespa...cheaper mass produced japanese crotch rockets out perform hogs in every single area except in the "poser" stakes

bad analogy dude


in your opinion its because the masses use 802 mixers...do you actually have any statistics or sales figures to back that up?

Ive read that the UB 1622FX-PRO and the ULTRAFEX PRO along with Truth monitors are some of their best selling gear (and big sellers generally in their fields)

Also I owned an 802..it was so good I bought a 1604A but kept the 802 to run a drum machine through before it even reaches the main mixer..theyre very quiet

You cant really say that the masses use the 802 mixers untill you actually see them used in the field...even I have one I bought at Musicians friend new for about $50 a long time ago.

You probubly couldnt handle a Hog anyway...but Id have one over a riceburner anyday.

 

[RAMI]

If you have something to say say it to my face .

OK.....What do you suggest????

 

[MOFO Pro]

As far as "working" with John Ellis and Reason....put yer dick back in yer pants.

Come on... he was in the same building... at almost the same time

 

[MOFO Pro]

As far as "working" with John Ellis and Reason....put yer dick back in yer pants.

Hey come on, I'm sure he was in the same building, at almost the same time

 

[DrewPeterson7]

My ideaologies come from those I done apprenticeship under, I didn't just decide one day I'm going to start doing sound I got asked.

Latching onto this sentence, because I think it perfectly encapsulates why you've gotten such a negative reaction here.

Reading your original post, it's incredibly clear that the view you're espousing is not your own. The difference in price between the two products you mention is so radical, and the "expensive" gear you happen to use is an example is such an odd choice, that it also looks like you're posting based on very limited experience with "expensive" gear, and probably not very much experience overall.

That's why I asked how much time you'd logged on the boards in question. All in, you came back with about a hundred and fifty hours of mixing. I'm only a hobbyist, and not even that dedicated one compared to several on this board, but I've probably logged a couple thousand hours over the past decade between tracking and mixing. And, again, I'll be the first to admit that that's not THAT much experience.

So, again, I'm not trying to be rude when I say this, but when you posted, it was very apparent you were merely repeating someone else's opinions, without the experience you'd need to independently verify them, and then defending them with near-religious zeal.

I think you've gotten the reaction you have because even guys like me can see that the reality is far murkier - that some times cheap gear blows, sometimes it really is a pretty good value, but that more often than not it serves a purpose, and, as the cliche goes, "it's a poor craftsman who blames his tools."

 

[kcearl]

You cant really say that the masses use the 802 mixers untill you actually see them used in the field...even I have one I bought at Musicians friend new for about $50 a long time ago.

You probubly couldnt handle a Hog anyway...but Id have one over a riceburner anyday.

what field would that be? the homerecording field?

couldn't handle a hog? what all of 85bhp? lol
fucking tractor, yeah I wouldn't be able to handle it...the sheer lack of power boredom, lack of cornering ability (do you have corners in the US?), and the fact that you look like a realtor/banker/weekend warrior riding it!

of course you'd buy one...you're clueless

 

[kcearl]

1)When someone asks a question, answer it with a question, and the question has to make the other person feel uncomfortable and stupid.
2)When someone replies to the OP, engage in how the reply is flawed and avoid the OP all together.
3)Make an active choice to continue wth the pissing contest and point out the flaws in the second, third,fourth etc. replies, and boast about how much you know.
4)Quote people to make them look stupid and feel bad and offer no real help to the OP
5) no matter what, be the authority on what ever it is you are talking about, and if you're not, act like you are.
6)Blast a bunch of figures and specs at those you know won't understand, to feel better about yourself and separate yourself from others.

I have found this to be the best approach with message boards good shout

 

[kcearl]

If you have something to say say it to my face otherwise shut your trap.

whatcha gonna do? hit him with a transformer?