GLS Audio ES-57 vs. Shure SM57 (on Guitar) Mic A/B Test - Video and WAV pics

[David Cooke]

My mic clip comment was more of a smart ass remark. I know friedman uses two dynamics very close. I guess my question is how close do the mics need to be before this has an effect. What about speakers in a cab isn't this the same deal? I honestly don't know much about this topic just asking.

 

[BroKen_H]

Simple test. Get some metal filings, put them on a sheet of stiff plastic, hold the mike under the plastic and see how far the field is disrupted.

 

[BroKen_H]

Now take a picture and duct tape the two back together for another picture to find out what the difference is Wow, I actually thunk a scientific think.

 

[gregoryg]

Edited because of my poor reading comprehension after 10pm in a weeknight!

 

[BroKen_H]

No worries!

 

[witzendoz]

What I was saying about duct taping the mics together upsetting the sound is that if you want to compare mics, both need to sound at their best, if there is another mic taped to it and inside it's pickup pattern, it can't be sounding it's best.

Try recording with a mic, then listed to the difference when you put your hand against one side, the obvious one is when a singer holds an sm58 around the bottom of the ball instead of the shaft, it really makes the vocals sound like crap.

Alan.

 

[c7sus]

No chance. Everyone would just start b!tching about it being a Mk II vs. an original.

MK-II is just fine.

 

[David Cooke]

What I was saying about duct taping the mics together upsetting the sound is that if you want to compare mics, both need to sound at their best, if there is another mic taped to it and inside it's pickup pattern, it can't be sounding it's best.

Try recording with a mic, then listed to the difference when you put your hand against one side, the obvious one is when a singer holds an sm58 around the bottom of the ball instead of the shaft, it really makes the vocals sound like crap.

Alan.

Cuffing the mic is a bit more
extreme than this. This sounds like a good idea for a blind test. Honestly though its hard for me to
swallow because all mics have some sort of grill. I would think the pickup pattern is a little bit tighter than the way you're describing it. I look at the graphs and see that it does circle the
Mic almost half way down the length of the mic (maybe 40%) but at what frequency are the sides really picking up anyways?

 

[BroKen_H]

What I was saying about duct taping the mics together upsetting the sound is that if you want to compare mics, both need to sound at their best, if there is another mic taped to it and inside it's pickup pattern, it can't be sounding it's best.

I think that's the point we've been trying to make with the xy miking technique. The mikes are specifically placed in each other's field. To avoid this, use the ortf or nos, but people have been placing xy sets for decades. You are correct, but we're home recording enthusiasts, not a major sound laboratory or MIT.

Try recording with a mic, then listed to the difference when you put your hand against one side, the obvious one is when a singer holds an sm58 around the bottom of the ball instead of the shaft, it really makes the vocals sound like crap.

Agree. This effect changes the sound. But if you do the same to two different mics, they will be affected the same. This point has also been made. Good point, but doesn't affect the test if both mikes are affected equally. There is no perfect test (observation theory). The best you can hope for is equal affectation. Like I said earlier, the best way to do the speaker test would be to assign one to the left of the cone, and the other equidistant from the center to the right of the cone. On a snare, however, taping them together is possibly the best solution, because however well you've tuned your snare, there are still sweet spots, sometimes within inches of other spots not so sweet...

Disagree. People have been cupping 58's and similar mikes since before Plant made it popular for the effect it gives. If you do it wrong, it sounds like crap, but there are those who can make anything sound musical

Bottom line: these two mikes do not sound similar. They aren't even close. No matter what the test, they won't. In a perfect environment with perfect test material, they will sound different. OP was to show that they shouldn't be compared as is often the case on the big, wide, wonderful web.

 

[David Cooke]

I think that's the point we've been trying to make with the xy miking technique. The mikes are specifically placed in each other's field. To avoid this, use the ortf or nos, but people have been placing xy sets for decades. You are correct, but we're home recording enthusiasts, not a major sound laboratory or MIT.



Agree. This effect changes the sound. But if you do the same to two different mics, they will be affected the same. This point has also been made. Good point, but doesn't affect the test if both mikes are affected equally. There is no perfect test (observation theory). The best you can hope for is equal affectation. Like I said earlier, the best way to do the speaker test would be to assign one to the left of the cone, and the other equidistant from the center to the right of the cone. On a snare, however, taping them together is possibly the best solution, because however well you've tuned your snare, there are still sweet spots, sometimes within inches of other spots not so sweet...

Disagree. People have been cupping 58's and similar mikes since before Plant made it popular for the effect it gives. If you do it wrong, it sounds like crap, but there are those who can make anything sound musical

Bottom line: these two mikes do not sound similar. They aren't even close. No matter what the test, they won't. In a perfect environment with perfect test material, they will sound different. OP was to show that they shouldn't be compared as is often the case on the big, wide, wonderful web.

I agree this is pretty off topic but i do want to say thanks to all of you guys because I haven't really thought about the magnets interfering with each other. I've only ever considered the phase with xy/stereo micing in general. Anyone dropped an sm57 into a bag of paper clips? Would that prove/disprove anything here?

 

[c7sus]

LOL@ the "paper clip" test.

You guys can't even see left field from where you are right now.

You guys do understand that $29 won't even get you a bag of decent weed, right?

 

[David Cooke]

LOL@ the "paper clip" test.

You guys can't even see left field from where you are right now.

You guys do understand that $29 won't even get you a bag of decent weed, right?

Thank you. I'm giving anyone a chance though. I'm not going to go home and see if my mics stick to my refrigerator or rub them against my computer monitor to see if it changes color but if people want to split hairs then i'm not gona stop them but I will demand some kind of evidence. I would love to see a paper
Clip test though. I can already see someone questioning---
No interrogating the tester about using non conductive paper clips or something. I can't find any supportive evidence on google but i don't really know what to query?

 

[David Cooke]

Having an SM57 at my side and desk with some steel paper clips....

No picky uppy. Not even close

However the SM57 would start to deflect a magnetic hiking compass at a distance of 5".

First world problems. I wonder if they cause cancer.

 

[BroKen_H]

Mark, that is seriously one of the scariest/funniest (I just don't know!) things I've ever seen.


The music, not the guy choking on his mike.

 

[c7sus]

If you drag that $29 mic through a sandbox, does it pick up iron filings or cat shit?

 

[Greg_L]

if you had both mics in exactly (to the millimetre) the same place on the amp it would be a fair test, but because they are in different spots it's hard to realistically tell which one is better or worse,s

This right here. As far as better/worse, this "test" fails miserably because of mic positioning. There is no better or worse when you're not controlling all of the variables. Mic placement is everything. Mic placement is way more important than what mic you use. A 57 in a terrible spot will sound worse than a cheapo radio shack mic in a perfect spot.

 

[David Cooke]

Greg L. Theres another test on here on a snare drum I did. Kinda hijacked it if you want to check it out that would be cool. Its on a snare drum. I didn't feel like it would be right to start a new thread and turn the mic
forum into a gls shootout. I haven't heard any stellar results with the mic and you're definately a guru when it
comes to home recording. I'll mail you one if you want they're literally just collecting dust.

 

[Greg_L]

Greg L. Theres another test on here on a snare drum I did. Kinda hijacked it if you want to check it out that would be cool. Its on a snare drum. I didn't feel like it would be right to start a new thread and turn the mic
forum into a gls shootout. I haven't heard any stellar results with the mic and you're definately a guru when it
comes to home recording. I'll mail you one if you want they're literally just collecting dust.

Ha, no thanks, I don't want one.

I'm no guru, I'm just a guy that tries to keep things real and simple.

In your drum clip, the SM57 sounds a million times better to me than the GLS version. It's not even close. I wanted to say that it seems the ES57 is picking up closer to the rim of the snare than the SM57 is, but even the bleed from the hats sounds better with the SM57, so it's not just mic position there. The SM57 just sounds better, more natural, with better low end and a generally flatter sound. If I was going off your clip alone, I'd say the ES57 is a piece of shit for a snare drum.

 

[David Cooke]

Ha, no thanks, I don't want one.

I'm no guru, I'm just a guy that tries to keep things real and simple.

In your drum clip, the SM57 sounds a million times better to me than the GLS version. It's not even close. I wanted to say that it seems the ES57 is picking up closer to the rim of the snare than the SM57 is, but even the bleed from the hats sounds better with the SM57, so it's not just mic position there. The SM57 just sounds better, more natural, with better low end and a generally flatter sound. If I was going off your clip alone, I'd say the ES57 is a piece of shit for a snare drum.

I need your tenure I caught hell saying the same thing in a nicer way. The mics were taped
Together tip to tip maybe the capsule is mounted closer to the tip on the gls or because of drum shape or pi or something idk but yeah...

 

[Greg_L]

I need your tenure I caught hell saying the same thing in a nicer way. The mics were taped
Together tip to tip maybe the capsule is mounted closer to the tip on the gls or because of drum shape or pi or something idk but yeah...

You can say whatever you want. You don't need tenure. Just expect that someone will disagree and call you out. When that happens you have a few options: 1) You can flip out, fight back, and become just another joke in here. Lots of people go this route. 2) Keep calm, walk away, and carry on to live another day. 3) Wade through the bullshit and maybe learn from someone else's different perspective. Maybe even admit that you're wrong, if you are. That's the rarest of them all.

IMO one of the big problems with this place is there are a lot of opinions from a lot of people, but most of those people don't back up what they say. They just say the words. A lot of people post some really ass-backwards convoluted ways of doing the simplest things. Put your money where your mouth is. Or when they do try to back it up, it's inconsistent with their words. Or it's just fundamentally wrong. Like the guitar clip that started this thread. It's a nice attempt to showcase two different mics, but it was fudged right from the get-go by using different mic placements. I'm wondering if any thought at all went into the mic placements. It makes the whole thing moot. We learned nothing. Yeah they sound different. Well duh. I can't even give it an A for effort. Good idea, terrible execution.