Give me the key - or maybe just where to start looking for it....

[fritsthegirl]

I am starting to appreciate this recording biz takes up some serious time, learning and dedication.

How'd you all learn the basics, about levels, how to record different instruments, which effects work well on what & how to get it to a nice listening format? Was it experimentation, reading, from friends, or by copying other stuff, etc?

I think my main question is, how'd you get on in the beginning and learn it all, and also what is your best bit of advice for a starter? What should a beginner get a grip on first and foremost when it comes to recording? Apart from the obvious, which is just to get on with it and stop asking so many questions.

 

[Armistice]

Learning how to get a good basic recorded sound from YOUR instruments in YOUR space is key. You can read a lot to learn stuff but then you have to apply what you've learnt. Knowing what to believe and what not to believe is also handy...

So, for you, I'd start by concentrating on getting a decent acoustic guitar sound, or the best you can with your guitar/s in your space. Experiment with mics, positions, orientation in the room etc. Whilst there are basics, the method I use to get acoustic guitars recorded (and I'm primarily an acoustic guitarist although if you listen to my last track you might not believe that... ) may not work for you, or work exactly the same way because my guitar/s sound completely different to yours.

Once you've got an acoustic guitar sound you're happy with (and post and get feedback on it if you're not sure) do a simple song via this means - guitar & voice only and then start trying different things to make it as good as you can. Try double tracking the guitar playing the same part, try double tracking the voice, add some harmonies etc.

You may not like the end result, it may not be "you" but you'll have learnt something along the way. If you find yourself spinning knobs for hours on a track to make it work, go back and re-record it again instead.

In mix, see what happens when you start adding a touch of reverb, or a touch of compression - start off with presets if you don't understand exactly what you should be doing. Listen. Adjust. Ask. Build. Trust your ears. Rinse and repeat.

The journey from here to there isn't nearly as hard if you get the basics right, and there are plenty of people here who'll help you along the way.

Above all, begin.

 

[RAMI]

Unfortunately, there is no key, other than LSD.

But seriously, for me it was a matter of going through the process of experimenting, reading, making mistakes, having a few "YES!" moments when I finally "got" something, having a few "NO!" moments where I realized I was wrong when I thought I "got" something during that last "YES!" moment, making more mistakes, tons of shitty recordings (which I still manage sometimes), etc....

I think the thing that held me back the most was not realizing that "less is more" is not just a cliche. It's the truth, and maybe even the "Key". Once you get over thinking that just because an effect, plug-in, or technique exists, it doesn't mean you have to use all of them at the same time, or any of them at all.

There are no short-cuts. Get things sounding as close to what you hear in your head before going anywhere near the RECORD button.

Good luck and wlecome to the world of never-ending frustration.

 

[Steenamaroo]

There are no short-cuts. Get things sounding as close to what you hear in your head before going anywhere near the RECORD button.

Good advice.
The approach should never be "Ok, I've recorded everything. How do I make it sound good?"

If you can always aim to have your mix sounding good before you touch anything (except maybe volume faders), you'll be doing pretty well.

 

[RAMI]

THE KEY

 

[fritsthegirl]

THE KEY

God, how did you find this excellent video?!

I've forgotten all about my woes now.

 

[fritsthegirl]

Above all, begin.

I like all your advice, thanks. And I will post just a simple track tomorrow - just to get a view on what I'm hearing through my speakers is true to how others will/do hear it. It's a good point to get back to basics as is with anything new you learn, you kind of get into this thing of wanting to create something magnificant, but I know from living that there are no short cuts and it's not going to happen unless I make the effort to get basic knowledge under my belt.

 

[gecko zzed]

I learnt this stuff through experimentation, trial and error.

I read a lot, and tried out the tips that abound on sites likes this.

I also listened a lot to material I liked, then tried to figure out how they got that sound.

I learned how to keep an open mind, and to be receptive to new and different ways of doing things.

I focussed on the performance, not the technology, realising that spending more money on shiny gadgets doesn't fix a poor performance.

When getting technology, I aimed to get stuff that would make a significant difference, not a minor difference.

I am still learning how to listen with my ears, and not with my brain. Your brain easily fools you into hearing what you want to hear, and not what's actually there.

I learned to distrust the opinions of friends and relatives: they all tell lies. The MP3 clinic is good, because they (generally) call it as they see it.

I learned to have confidence in my own abilities, and even if the results weren't (and still aren't) perfect, to recognise the progressive improvements I'd been making.

 

[Telegram Sam]

I'm kind of a beginner myself, adn I have found that I can't make much use of something equipment-wise if I can't get my head around it conceptually. This means reading, lots of reading, IMO.

 

[fritsthegirl]

I'll take all this advice and work hard, thanks for all your your replies.

I thought I could get a nice, simple recording of an acoustic piece done in a couple of hours this morning, but it's fair to say I'm well and truly lost in it. It will be some time. I've learned so much over the past week or so, it's going to take ages before I've tried it all out and see it all reflected in what I'm doing.

My ears are getting picky, I am paying far more attention to the music I listen to, trying to figure out how they've panned it and how they've prioritised the position of the instruments/vocals/beat, etc. I'm tuned into new territory, it's a whole new way of listening to music for me.

Gecko zzed, I totally agree about the friends and family, I started to distrust them quite quickly.'It's really good' is nice to hear the first few times, but when I pressed them for more they just didn't know what to say. So I figured, time to come to this forum. It's been a steep, but well worth it, learning curve.

 

[sixer2007]

My ears are getting picky, I am paying far more attention to the music I listen to, trying to figure out how they've panned it and how they've prioritised the position of the instruments/vocals/beat, etc. I'm tuned into new territory, it's a whole new way of listening to music for me.

You're on to something with your way of thinking here IMO. After I started getting heavily invested in HR, It became hard to listen to music like a "normal" person again. The only way you ever really know if you're getting good is to compare your work to professional records. It's really disheartening at first, because you feel so inadequate with your skills, but if you have no target, you don't progress. Keep at it!

Also, the techniques that the pros use are used because they work. Listen to music with a purpose of figuring out what they're doing and you can learn a ton.

 

[fritsthegirl]

You're on to something with your way of thinking here IMO. After I started getting heavily invested in HR, It became hard to listen to music like a "normal" person again. The only way you ever really know if you're getting good is to compare your work to professional records. It's really disheartening at first, because you feel so inadequate with your skills, but if you have no target, you don't progress. Keep at it!

Also, the techniques that the pros use are used because they work. Listen to music with a purpose of figuring out what they're doing and you can learn a ton.

I used to think mixing was a really abstract thing, and mainly down to the room you were playing in or the voice you were blessed with, the mic/amp you were using, that kind of thing. I always did wonder why there are hundreds of knobs on a mixing desk...now I know.

 

[kidkage]

I'll take all this advice and work hard, thanks for all your your replies.

I thought I could get a nice, simple recording of an acoustic piece done in a couple of hours this morning, but it's fair to say I'm well and truly lost in it. It will be some time. I've learned so much over the past week or so, it's going to take ages before I've tried it all out and see it all reflected in what I'm doing.

My ears are getting picky, I am paying far more attention to the music I listen to, trying to figure out how they've panned it and how they've prioritised the position of the instruments/vocals/beat, etc. I'm tuned into new territory, it's a whole new way of listening to music for me.

Gecko zzed, I totally agree about the friends and family, I started to distrust them quite quickly.'It's really good' is nice to hear the first few times, but when I pressed them for more they just didn't know what to say. So I figured, time to come to this forum. It's been a steep, but well worth it, learning curve.

There is indeed a learning curve, but if you don't make mistakes you'll never learn.

For me personally, in the lots of years I've spent doing this, I've learned that the biggest obstacle I've had is trusting myself.
For everyone there is a line between what you hear in your head and what you hear in the speakers. And when you're starting there's a huge disparity.
I've slowly learned to trust myself by actually listening to music. I’m talking about really listening, sitting down with a pair of headphones and completely focusing on the music you are hearing, thinking critically about it and how you can apply what you are hearing to your own work. And it seems that's what you're doing
That can be applied to mixing too. Even if you don't necessarily have the best listening equipment, listening to music you know and using that as a reference for your own work will give you some guidlines for trial and error.
Even with "good" equipment, that's essentially what it comes down to - learning how things translate from your equipment.

The people on this site have helped me a lot too. I can't really thank them enough. Maybe one of these days I'll man up and post a track again . This time with two years of practicing and taking their advice since I posted something

Oh, and good headphones helped me a lot too. Sennheiser HD280 Pro to be specific.

 

[grimtraveller]

Never ask grimtraveller for historical reminiscence !

How'd you all learn the basics, about levels, how to record different instruments, which effects work well on what & how to get it to a nice listening format?
I think my main question is, how'd you get on in the beginning and learn it all ?

I haven't learned it all !
The first time I saw a multitracker was in 1990 when the adventure playground I was working at bought some musical equipment as we had been given funding to go towards 'youth' activities. As an afterthought after buying some guitars and percussive bits, we bought a 4 track portastudio. I can't even remember which one, no one knew how to use it and we never found out ! A few months later, again, as an afterthought, I bought myself a Fostex X15 as I had a load of cash left over having bought a double bass and video camera {my main emphasis in 1991}. It was over a year before I got around to using it and by that time I'd bought a mandolin so I made a little 4 track demo for my sister using guitar, bass and mandolin. I used this Indian scale that I found in the sleeve notes of the "Indo jazz fusions" record but backwards. I thought 'this is neat !'.
I had no idea where to start so I just read the manual of the X15. The thing that made a dent in my brain, that I still remember was the phrase "Apart from the generally accepted practice of putting the bass and vocals in the centre......"and "Mixing is more art than science....". The former told me that there were standard practices {not carved in stone, to be done always and forever, but standard ~ a place to start and fall back on that work} and the latter told me that what sounds right to the mixer is right and that everyone else that's a listener simply takes it or leaves it. This is one pastime involving hugely opinionated folk !

Was it experimentation, reading, from friends, or by copying other stuff, etc?

When I first started recording, I didn't know anyone else that recorded. I had a friend that was a singer and she'd made an album but it was another year or so before I saw into the inside of a 'studio'. My only source of information was interviews, manuals, little offhand snippets and the odd comment from books. Most of the time I only had a shadowy, vague notion of what was being spoken about so experimentation was the thing. For instance, when I heard Mark Lewisohn describing the deep ocean bed reverb on "Tomorrow never knows" {the version that was never released} it conjoured up images in my mind of this tremendous heavy reverbed bass drum. So I tried it and discovered it generally made for an awful mush ! It only really worked in a sparse setting.
Through numerous experiences like that, I learned some things and adapted them to my own ends.
I used to read this free magazine called "Making music" and they had this interesting booklet called "Working with effects" which gave me a deeper insight into them, even though I was fazed by compression ! So I'd buy effects pedals to see what they actually sounded like. Some were great, some were pretty crappy. Between '92 and 2000 I did alot of buying, trying and swapping.
It's really difficult to chart exactly what happened when, but when I'd discover things, I'd try to work them into songs I was recording. Sometimes the results were pretty good. Sometimes they were infuriatingly crapacious.

What should a beginner get a grip on first and foremost when it comes to recording ?

Learn to get good levels without going into distortion. When mixing, remember that the song is paramount. So what you mix has to sound like a song, not a bunch of tracks mixed together. Not every instrument and vocal has to be playing all the way through.
Sometimes, instrument parts you come up with are fantastic in their own right ~ but may clash with the melody or some foundational part. If you can, don't get too attatched to any part of a song.
Sometimes, less really is more. Other times, heavy denseness is what's called for. You need to learn which serves the song appropriately.
Not every instrument or vocal line has to be heard individually. Sometimes they back up/strengthen other parts without calling attention to themselves and it's years before others are even aware of their existence.
Listen to all advice and tips but don't take any one piece as unshakably carved in 'recording lore'. Different people can have wildly conflicting views over the same thing. By the same token, keep uppermost in your mind that you can learn from even rude, mean people.
Above all else, listen. Learn to be satisfied with what you like regardless of whether others can pick holes. The recording does not exist that cannot have holes picked in it.

 

[grimtraveller]

One other thing that springs to mind, listen to a spread of home recorded efforts as well as the music you usually listen to.
There is a method to my madness......

 

[Richard Monroe]

Well, frits, I learned what I do know from all of the above. Homerec.com, books, other musicians, a whole lot of trial and error, and yes, even a Guitar Center employee or two. At one point I hired an engineer as a consultant for help with a complex project. First, understand that my experience is entirely based on recording real sound in real space, so my knowledge of mics, mic placement, preamps, etc. is vastly greater than my knowledge of FX, midi, techno, etc. For me, "drums" consists of one or more humans with one or more drums.

That said, my best advice is: learn to think of the signal chain in the correct order, instead of in reverse. The first, single most important thing in making a great recording is to have something great to record. The signal chain begins with the room. Then there's a musician in that room, who has an instrument. Hopefully he has a song. He them executes a performance. It is picked up by one or more microphones, pickups, or transducers. The signal is sent to a preamp, and then recorded. FX (effects) may be added before or after the recorder, or both. If you have a great room, a great instrument, and a great performance of a great song, all you have to do is put the right mic(s) in the right place, plug them into the best preamp you have, and push "record"! Note that mics are tools, and the best mic is not necessarily the most expensive mic, it's the *right* mic.

Beginners get all bent out of shape trying to figure out what to record *on*, instead of figuring out what to record *with*. But, we are all impatient. If you are an absolute beginner, I will recommend to you what I recommend to most beginners- start by buying a Zoom H4n:

Zoom H4n | 8thstreet.com | Call 1-800-878-8882 | Most Orders Ship Free!

If you can, grab the accessories also:

Zoom APH-4n | 8thstreet.com | Call 1-800-878-8882 | Most Orders Ship Free!

or at least the remote control card:

Zoom RC4 | 8thstreet.com | Call 1-800-878-8882 | Most Orders Ship Free!

Why H4n? Because it gives you the immediate ability to record things, and start learning. It allows you to use it to control computer recording software. It comes with Cubase, many people here like Reaper. You can plug almost any kind of external microphones into it, and it provides phantom power for condenser mics. It can run off wall power, batteries, of by USB. It is portable, so if your room sucks you can go find a better one. And when you have upgraded to your Grammy winning studio from Hell, it will still be useful as a sketch pad and a "point and shoot" recorder for a recording artist. You'll need a 16mB SD card. It comes with 4mB, which is too small.

You will need headphones to start. At first, you can use whatever ear buds you have. Later on, I like these:

Sennheiser HD 280 PRO | Sweetwater.com

You can now record with the stereo pair of small diaphragm condenser mics that are built-in. But- you need to learn how to use different kinds of mics. Start with a simple cheap dynamic stage mic and a simple entry level large diaphragm condenser. Lots of people here like this for the dynamic:

Shure SM57 | Sweetwater.com

Personally, I prefer this, but that's just me:

Sennheiser E835 | 8thstreet.com | Call 1-800-878-8882 | Most Orders Ship Free!

Here's a dirt-cheap alternative that doesn't really suck:

Behringer XM8500A | 8thstreet.com | Call 1-800-878-8882 | Most Orders Ship Free!

For an entry level condenser, I like this:

Marshall Electronics MXL V67G | 8thstreet.com | Call 1-800-878-8882 | Most Orders Ship Free!

Then, get a couple of good mic cables, a couple of mic stands, and a pop filter, and you are basically good to go. You could do a lot with that setup, even without a computer. You can do much more with one. Eventually, you will need monitors, specialized speakers for mixing, and the sticker shock on good ones will kill you. Don't buy cheap ones now. It won't help.

OK- you now have a basic recording system. Put on the headphones and arm 2 tracks. Listen. Make noises, clap your hands, shake some keys. What are you listening for? The difference between a hard room, like an empty apartment, where you clap your hands, and you can hear the echo, to a soft room like a walk-in closet with a lot of fur coats and sweaters. For most purposes, you are looking for a room that is in between, and where you don't hear a ton of ambient (background) noise. Good luck with that. No, there is no mic that doesn't pick up noise. No, there's no magic bullet. Noise will be your enemy for as long as you record things, and it has a way of coming back from the dead.

Your quest now is to find a place that's good for recording. Not a hard room or a dead room, but a room that sounds *good*. Some things, like loud vocals and drums, need a softer room if possible. See? It's about the room. Then the musician, the instrument, the song, the performance. Get all that right, and you can record it on a device as small and simple as the H4n, and get great results. If the room sucks, the cheap guitar is out of tune, with dead strings, the song sucks, and the performance sucks, the greatest studio on Earth will make it sound *worse* by telling the truth.

Well, there's a little hardware advice and a little philosophical advice. I hope one or the other helps.

 

[fritsthegirl]

Thanks to everyone that has replied to this post. I have really enjoyed reading your advice and experiences and it has certainly given me a lot of things to think about. I'll probably go through and read them all again when I need some more motivation.

Being I'm starting out quite late with this as a hobby I feel like I've got a lifetime of learning to catch up on. But it's kind of nice to feel this rush to get something done, it's taken me this long to discover something that I'm really into, and well, it's good to know I've got something fun to do for the rest of my life.

Although the difficult stuff might not be in my immediate grasp I know I can learn it if I start at the right point, that is the beginning. And the other main advice seems to be, listen carefully and keep doing/trying/learning. Yo, I think can do this...

 

[Chili]

It's nice to see someone come to this site with the desire to learn it right and the understanding that you can't Have It Now, unlike so many other newbs who have the belief that they should be the next CLA with their recent purchase of a USB mic. Good for you, Frist!!!

I found this site to be a treasure trove of information. I read and read and read until I had some semblence of what I needed to do. A few missteps along the way and a lot of experimentation. I remember posting up my first song here and was nervous as hell. But got some good feedback and many more great ideas from subsequent song critiques. I believe that is where the power of this site comes from, the MP3 clinic. You can learn so much just from posting a song and reading the feedback. Or from listening to other songs and seeing what people have to say about it.

 

[dainbramage]

Why H4n? Because it gives you the immediate ability to record things, and start learning. It allows you to use it to control computer recording software. It comes with Cubase, many people here like Reaper.

It is indeed a great little unit. I started with one myself and still use it from time to time (not that I am not still a newbie; I am). Be careful though if you're using an AMD-based computer: The interface part of the H4n becomes unusable.

 

[moresound]

It is indeed a great little unit. I started with one myself and still use it from time to time (not that I am not still a newbie; I am). Be careful though if you're using an AMD-based computer: The interface part of the H4n becomes unusable.

I thought that was all settled in court?