Give it a listen

[7string]

Ok, I tried a little trick that I read in my Mixing Engineer's Handbood about sending the drums and the bass to a single buss, compressing them and bringing them back up under the original dry singal. It really does seem to enhance and 'bring out' the drums and bass guitar. Am I wrong? Does this mix sound ok as far as balance AND the drums and bass? I really want this mix to be done but if there's still something that somebody hears that I don't I want to know so I can look at it. Thanks!

Oh, and here's the steps POST-MIX:

1. L1 16-bit (pre-master edit ready)

2. L1 16-bit lowest dither level

3. L1 16-bit moderate limiting

4. Saved as 16-bit 44,100 WAV (for CD)

4. Saved as 320 MP3 (for you guys!)

I'm not sure about those steps but that's what I did. So if there's something wrong THERE too please let me know.

 

[Dogman]

Sounds pretty good to me, Jeff. Did you take and put the second drum, and bass track right with the dry tracks, or did you pan them any different? Meaning, is it right exactly with the dry track, and you had to adjust the volume levels?

 

[7string]

Sounds pretty good to me, Jeff. Did you take and put the second drum, and bass track right with the dry tracks, or did you pan them any different? Meaning, is it right exactly with the dry track, and you had to adjust the volume levels?

Straight up center. I just brought the levels of the compressed sub up under the dry tracks until I could hear a difference and then backed them off a bit. Do you think it could use a little 'air?'

 

[Dogman]

Do you think it could use a little 'air?'

I believe so. It could use something. I can hear all the individual parts pretty well, but not sure exactly what. I put it into Audition, and ran a simple preset eq over it, and bumped the levels a little and it seemed to sound fine, so it probably needs some tweaking to give it a bit more "life". Probably not the way you want it, but I just wanted to see if some simple eq would do much. I think some small tweaks could fill it up nicely.
Ed

 

[Llarion]

Straight up center. I just brought the levels of the compressed sub up under the dry tracks until I could hear a difference and then backed them off a bit. Do you think it could use a little 'air?'

Yeah, I think I'd slide them about 10 degrees apart (the compressed and the dry). It will give it a bit of illusory stereo imaging and field depth. Personally, I never run anything dead center; even if it's just a few degrees off; it seems to eliminate a "dead spot" in the sopund field, ya know?

Nice trick though, the dry plus compressed... it does impart a slick, full sound! Nicely done! Cool tune, too!

 

[XLR]

Very nice guitar work during the chorus (2:11 and later)... the countermelody of the highest gtr, and the harmonizing and arpeggiated gtrs. Great tone to the gtr solo line during the intro.

The drums/bass sound very full... that technique of adding duplicated compressed tracks is a good one IMO. I've used it on nylon str gtr in the past to thicken the sound.

I like the vocal a lot. Kind of verby but that fits the style I think.

Tim

 

[7string]

Thanks!

Dogman: I'll do a bit of tweaking this afternoon when business slows down a bit and maybe post a remix later this evening. John (Massive) commented on the 'air' in a PM and I trust him explicitly so I'll look into that. Thanks for the comments, Ed!

Llarrion: Nice thought! I'll give it a shot and see what I think. Thanks for the idea!

Timothy: Have I told you lately... oh, sorry... Thank you for the compliments! Coming from you it means a lot to me. It's amazing that I do something without even thinking about it and then you come along and point out the things I did that I wasn't even aware of.

Thanks all!

 

[7string]

New mix

Ok, I tweaked a bit of high end on the guitars and panned the dry drums about 5% left and the compressed drums/bass buss about 5% right. Does it help? Does it still need 'air'?

Thanks!

 

[Dogman]

Ok, I tweaked a bit of high end on the guitars and panned the dry drums about 5% left and the compressed drums/bass buss about 5% right. Does it help? Does it still need 'air'?

Thanks!

I think it sounds better. Seems to have a bit more depth. I still find it to be lacking something in the low end. You can hear the instruments, but they lack some punch. That may not be what you have in mind for this tune, so I could be way off bass. Would it be ok if I posted a quick mix to show you what I hear in it? Don't want to steal your fun, or anything, but it's a catchy tune.

 

[7string]

I think it sounds better. Seems to have a bit more depth. I still find it to be lacking something in the low end. You can hear the instruments, but they lack some punch. That may not be what you have in mind for this tune, so I could be way off bass. Would it be ok if I posted a quick mix to show you what I hear in it? Don't want to steal your fun, or anything, but it's a catchy tune.

Absolutely! I need all the help I can get!

I do have the 'fear' of too much low end and high end and probably overcompensate a BUNCH.

Plus I'm still getting used to the new Wharfie's... which I love by the way...

 

[Dogman]

Absolutely! I need all the help I can get!

I do have the 'fear' of too much low end and high end and probably overcompensate a BUNCH.

Plus I'm still getting used to the new Wharfie's... which I love by the way...

Cool. Now remember, this may not be what you have in mind, but I hear the drums and bass, and thought I'd accentuate them a bit. This was done with just a preset plugin for eq, and boosting the overall volume a few db. It really could use some better tweaking, but this might give you an idea of what I hear in your song.
7String Song

You will probably have better luck using the eq over some individual parts, instead of the whole mix.
Ed

 

[7string]

Cool. Now remember, this may not be what you have in mind, but I hear the drums and bass, and thought I'd accentuate them a bit. This was done with just a preset plugin for eq, and boosting the overall volume a few db. It really could use some better tweaking, but this might give you an idea of what I hear in your song.
7String Song

You will probably have better luck using the eq over some individual parts, instead of the whole mix.
Ed

Ok, I think I was misunderstanding you all along. You think it needs more bottom? Because that's what I'm hearing and I hope you exaggerated it to make a point because it sounds to me like a lot! When you say this is "what I hear in your song" are you saying that what you did is the way you think it should sound or are you saying that you actually HEAR that?

And I'm still confused about what people mean by 'air.' What the hell does that mean - "It could use a bit more air."????????

The actual tweaking that I did WAS on the individual tracks, not the overall mix, which is why the drums and bass stayed the same. I figure it is the Mastering Engineer's job to tweak any EQ on the mix itself. I just put a bit more definition in the guitars. Usually I roll off the low and high ends of the guitars so they don't sound muddy or too harsh and piercing.

Thanks for the help, Dogman! Much appreciated!

 

[7string]

Apologies to Rami!

By the way, I keep forgetting to mention that Rami did the drums on this song for me and as always did a kick ass job! Thanks Rami and apologies for not mentioning it sooner. I can only say that I am sickernadog for the last week+ so I can blame it on that.

 

[Dogman]

Ok, I think I was misunderstanding you all along. You think it needs more bottom? Because that's what I'm hearing and I hope you exaggerated it to make a point because it sounds to me like a lot! When you say this is "what I hear in your song" are you saying that what you did is the way you think it should sound or are you saying that you actually HEAR that?

And I'm still confused about what people mean by 'air.' What the hell does that mean - "It could use a bit more air."????????

The actual tweaking that I did WAS on the individual tracks, not the overall mix, which is why the drums and bass stayed the same. I figure it is the Mastering Engineer's job to tweak any EQ on the mix itself. I just put a bit more definition in the guitars. Usually I roll off the low and high ends of the guitars so they don't sound muddy or too harsh and piercing.

Thanks for the help, Dogman! Much appreciated!

Yeah, what you hear is just an interpretation of what I think the song could use. The low end is a bit too much, but it was a preset with no adjustment. I just wanted to bring the bass and low end of the drums out a bit. I think you have everything recorded well, and just need to tweak things to your liking. I don't want to meddle with your music, but it's a good song, and you need to show everyone the whole thing. What I did is a bit boomy, but I think you can adjust some stuff to get a more full mix. Drums are solid, and need to help carry the tune. Bass fills up some really good space, and should be prominent. Guitars seem to come through very well, no matter what you do, so they probably don't need much at all. Vocals are always tough for me, as I can't sing, and bury my own....
Anyway, here is something with a bit less emphasis on the low end. It still might be a bit too much, but less exaggereated.
7String Again

As far as "Air", most stuff I've seen that is some top end.....keeps the mids from being to much. I might be incorrect on that, so.....

Anyway, hope I can help a bit, but it's more from experimentation for me. I'm still trying to get the hang of this myself.
Ed

 

[7string]

Ok, NOW we're on the same page. It still sounds a bit much to me but I get your point now. I just tried to get the levels fairly even and balanced without each instrument getting in the way of each other. I like to get some definition in the bass guitar so it's clean and clearly in the mix without muddying up with works. Then get each instrument set in it's own space with panning, add whatever effects are needed/wanted and let the Mastering Engineer have it. I just figgered that if I got a good, clean mix, good levels and balance then the ME would give it the smooth bottom end and whatever else it needed. Is that the wrong approach?

As far as 'air' goes, I assumed the same thing about it being the high end but never got a clarification on this. And if you keep responding with your opinions, ideas, etc., then you ARE helping and it's appreciated! At least by this old hippie...

 

[Dogman]

Ok, NOW we're on the same page. It still sounds a bit much to me but I get your point now. I just tried to get the levels fairly even and balanced without each instrument getting in the way of each other. Then get each instrument set in it's own space with panning, add whatever effects are needed/wanted and let the Mastering Engineer have it. I just figgered that if I got a good, clean mix, good levels and balance then the ME would give it the smooth bottom end and whatever else it needed. Is that the wrong approach?

I think you got it right man. If someone is going to work on this after you, you want good, clean stuff. A real ME could bring it to life. I thought you were doing this on your own. You don't want to mess with too much eq or compression before someone tries to engineer it. A nice, even song should be what they want. Just save it as clean as possible, but then mess with a copy of it. Show him basically what you'd like. Once you save a decent copy, you can't hurt much. Have fun with it, and try and learn.
Good luck.
Ed

 

[7string]

I think you got it right man. If someone is going to work on this after you, you want good, clean stuff. A real ME could bring it to life. I thought you were doing this on your own. You don't want to mess with too much eq or compression before someone tries to engineer it. A nice, even song should be what they want. Just save it as clean as possible, but then mess with a copy of it. Show him basically what you'd like. Once you save a decent copy, you can't hurt much. Have fun with it, and try and learn.
Good luck.
Ed

Well it did make me think, Ed. So I tweaked a bit more and it DOES sound a bit more full in the lower registers. I really have to stop being so safe sometimes!

Thanks!

 

[Supercreep]

I really like the guitars behind the verse- very complex and rich.

I'm diggin' on the drums, too.

 

[7string]

I really like the guitars behind the verse- very complex and rich.

I'm diggin' on the drums, too.

Thanks Supercreep! Much appreciated!