Getting "that" sound . . .

[crag]

That orchestral sound, that is . . . . . .

As a newcomer, I'd like to first of all say that I'm really impressed with the level of knowledge and expertise here - something for people of all levels . . .


Before I pose my question, let me quickly explain that I'm not an engineer. I share a small project studio with a friend - he does almost all the engineering and I'm more involved in production / arranging / scoring / eating. However, please feel free to be as technical (or otherwise) with your advice as I'll pass everything back to my mate.

OK - we're working on this track - it's an orchestral ballad. Obviously, the main orchestral sound here is strings but being a small project there's no budget for a real orchestra. So I got a string quartet in and recorded various parts. I've also recorded live brass, drums, bass guitar and piano. To beef up the strings I'm using the virtuoso cards on the Proteus 2000 (a few oboes, flutes thrown in for good measure) and there you have it - sonically, the individual tracks are good, all the instruments are panned "orchestrally correctly" but it's still not close enough to the real thing. Now, I know it's not going to be the real thing but I wondered if, given this scenario, someone could make some suggestions. I'd particularly appreciate advice on making the best use of reverb as simply throwing it all in a spanking big hall doesn't help.

Anyway, bit of a ramble bit any help is much appreciated.

 

[Shailat]

You already recorded the strings so I'm limited in the advice I can give you.

Try this: Use 2 different string patches from the synth and de-tune them by a drop (around 8 cent sharp and 8 cent flat). Pan them slightly in different places along side each other.
You can also run them through a harmonizer. Use the scrape of the bow comming from the real players and emphesis that using EQ. Blend all the sounds together but panned as a orchestra.
Also try a bit of chorus on the samples.

If you are not playing realisticly or arranging realistcly then your problem layes in the arranging field and that is another post alltogther........

Reverb - Dont drown them in reverb. Strings are the closest to you in a hall and dont have that bouncy off the wall sound. Use less reverb for the strings then you do for the rest of the orchestra.
Try a warm plate, Cut some high end freq, You can use a big reverb but again dont drown. Cut the delay some what and that why you can use a big reverb with out the wall of gushing reflections.
Use predelay on your reverb ranging from 100-200ms.

Try using an exciter so they wont sound harsh like using EQ but it will bring them out and sparkle them.

 

[dmuzz]

I know you might not like this idea since you've already spent a lot of time tracking real instruments but, ....
Have you tried sequencing a string section and sending the sequence through a synth??
I use a Roland JV1080 with a Strings expansion card. Gets me a lot closer to a full orchestra than trying to double and then triple a few violins.
I realise that you wont get that nice close personal touch and sound. Food for thought.
I spent 50 hours sequencing strings for an 11 minute piece, you might be surprised of what level you can sequence at. Excellent for composers and engineers alike.

 

[crag]

Thanks guys for the advice.

I think we'll try some of your detune / pan suggestions Shailat - great info, thanks.

Dmuzz - I started out with a completely sequenced sound. I was quite happy with it (the emu proteus is a great tool) until I started listening to more live recordings !!

As I say - many thanks guys - I'll give you a heads up once it's mixed - I'd appreciate your comments.

 

[CyanJaguar]

I think that many of the orchestral arrangements that I hear, movies themes, some scores, etc, use alot of samples. gigasampler would be a great starting point, or you could get a used hardware sampler.

The reverb is very important in this genre, cos it has to be realistic. You can get away with sound modules easily if you have the right reverb. I love the very far away sounds of orchestral compositions. Of course, predelay is very important to getting the realistic reverb.

what to do is to set up a bus or two of reverbs and send the different instruments to the buses in varying amounts. Invariably, the strings are the farthest away and the piano is the closest.

Can you post an mp3 example?

 

[crag]

CJ - don't have it mixed as yet. I'll get an mp3 up as soon as possible.