6gun
New member
LocusLarsen said:
well, i've been playing for 20 years rookie.
well, i've been playing for 20 years rookie.
TheGuitarMan
New member
In 20 years you haven't noticed that cutting all mids sounds like shit?
When guitarists record with no mids, the bass gets lost in the mix.
When guitarists record with no mids, the bass gets lost in the mix.
6gun
New member
i don't scoop all the mids, i go to around 2-3 depending on which amp i'm using. personal preference, of course.
TheGuitarMan
New member
You said that, "cutting all mids" will help you get that chunk.
You is confusing!
You is confusing!
6gun
New member
oops, i did say that. my bad. how about this: cut the mids, boost the bass, palm mute, use your ears and adjust to your taste.
okay?
great.
okay?
great.
LocusLarsen
New member
20 years huh?
Thats a really................unimportant number................but thanks for letting me know.
Thats a really................unimportant number................but thanks for letting me know.
tvaillan
New member
i'm a metal head. getting chunk is a big deal for me. Listen to Symphony X with Micheal Romeo and you try to tell me that his sound doesn't have the biggest balls you've ever heard. Ballsier than panthera (i'm not knocking anybody). That's the sound i'm after.
I haven't acheived it .. but i do know how ($). Here's how i've been acheiving a very good chugging that can be taylored to whatever you listen to.
Here's how:
Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier with 4x12. MIC IT! (no explanation here)
Ibanez w/Edge and DiMarzio Super Distortion bridge humbuck
Big strings.
Palm Muting technique (can't stress it enough)
Lots of Bass, Half Treble, Prescence to taste. Lots of MIDS (50%) ! despite what some people say. lol. Mids, or lack thereof can cause problems later on in the mix and you most often then not, find out that a decent amount of mids can really help the mix. (You can remove some mids later .. to taste.) What you hear 'jamming' by yourself and what you'll hear in the mix is completely different .. and can sometimes clash.
Ease up on the gain when recording. The rest of the music (bass and keybs specifically) help the chugging come out.
Post recording:
1. Roll off the damaging frequencies (really low stuff)
2. use a compressor. Heavy guitar like this tends to be in the top 6 dB's. Dynamically, obviously , it's dead , but your balls will swell just listening to it. Try it.
The rest is a secret but involves a delay, another track and an eq.
Tristan
I haven't acheived it .. but i do know how ($). Here's how i've been acheiving a very good chugging that can be taylored to whatever you listen to.
Here's how:
Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier with 4x12. MIC IT! (no explanation here)
Ibanez w/Edge and DiMarzio Super Distortion bridge humbuck
Big strings.
Palm Muting technique (can't stress it enough)
Lots of Bass, Half Treble, Prescence to taste. Lots of MIDS (50%) ! despite what some people say. lol. Mids, or lack thereof can cause problems later on in the mix and you most often then not, find out that a decent amount of mids can really help the mix. (You can remove some mids later .. to taste.) What you hear 'jamming' by yourself and what you'll hear in the mix is completely different .. and can sometimes clash.
Ease up on the gain when recording. The rest of the music (bass and keybs specifically) help the chugging come out.
Post recording:
1. Roll off the damaging frequencies (really low stuff)
2. use a compressor. Heavy guitar like this tends to be in the top 6 dB's. Dynamically, obviously , it's dead , but your balls will swell just listening to it. Try it.
The rest is a secret but involves a delay, another track and an eq.
Tristan
Last edited:
Lopp
New member
LocusLarsen said:
Uhh. You may be right that it doesn't necessarily mean he knows the best techniques. However, it definitely seems relevant in defending the fact that he's not a "beginner."
A
Agtronic
New member
UPDATE : August 2003
What do you guys think of this sound?
I'm not asking for anyone to point out the sloppy timing or anything ...
Details :
1978 Les Paul Pro w/ DiMarzios (PAF Pros or Super Distortions, can't remember) through a Rocktron Voodu Valve direct to my Mackie CR1604 and then the computer. Strings are Fender Bullets.
In the Voodu Valve I sent the direct output to the left and sent a delayed (0.5 ms) signal to the right, for that double guitar sound.
Song :
Almost the entire song is played on an open E, tuned to D. Near the end, you should recognize "Thunder Kiss '65" by White Zombie. I'm thinking of doing a heavy version of this.
Right-Click > Save Target As
What do you guys think of this sound?
I'm not asking for anyone to point out the sloppy timing or anything ...
Details :
1978 Les Paul Pro w/ DiMarzios (PAF Pros or Super Distortions, can't remember) through a Rocktron Voodu Valve direct to my Mackie CR1604 and then the computer. Strings are Fender Bullets.
In the Voodu Valve I sent the direct output to the left and sent a delayed (0.5 ms) signal to the right, for that double guitar sound.
Song :
Almost the entire song is played on an open E, tuned to D. Near the end, you should recognize "Thunder Kiss '65" by White Zombie. I'm thinking of doing a heavy version of this.
Right-Click > Save Target As
F
FalseRevRG
New member
i didn't read all of the thread, but depending on the album, iced earth's guitar tone comes from either a stock marshall jcm800 or a soldano slo100 or a custom larry grohman amp. jon schaffer, i believe, has also been known to use a peavey 5150 live. he plays gibson and bc rich guitars. the thing is, a lot of the clarity and punch in their recordings comes from the bass and the way it's mixed, which sounds really really good.
D
Dimebag
New member
Another trick is this :
Between guitar and preamp, you boost the mids way up.
After pre-amp you cut everything in the midrange...
I know it sounds like I'm kidding, but you'll get wicked tones !!!!
Tried it with a PodPro, a Parametric in the "first loop", and a 2x31 graphic in the stereoloop. Used the "Insane" model, by the way... That sound had more balls than the "Great Southern Trendkill" tone... (in my book that one is close to ultimate!!!)
You may even try it the other way around... cut mids before pre, boost'em afterwards... Dont know what that'll end up with, though...
Dime...
Between guitar and preamp, you boost the mids way up.
After pre-amp you cut everything in the midrange...
I know it sounds like I'm kidding, but you'll get wicked tones !!!!
Tried it with a PodPro, a Parametric in the "first loop", and a 2x31 graphic in the stereoloop. Used the "Insane" model, by the way... That sound had more balls than the "Great Southern Trendkill" tone... (in my book that one is close to ultimate!!!)
You may even try it the other way around... cut mids before pre, boost'em afterwards... Dont know what that'll end up with, though...
Dime...
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FattMusiek
New member
Mesa Boogie amps would give you that chunky sound. Try the 5150 head. Micing really close helps a lot.
T
TheOneTrueMatt
New member
Re: Symphony X tone
Ok, there are a lot better ways to get a Michael Romeo sound than what you're suggesting. First off, he uses the X2N pickup in the bridge, so why not just go for that? Though aside from SyX specifically, there are a lot of good pickups for metal, and just being super hot isn't always the answer (and good metal needs a tight sound, not just gainy).
Second, lots of bass, half treble? No, Romeo's treble is at about 8. Bass, not so much. Probably not over 5. Now this is on a Mesa/Boogie Triaxis which reacts in very subtle ways to EQ and doesn't respond well to excessive bass in the channel Romeo uses. Through a 4x12 bass set at 5 or so (he has his Presence and Dynamic Voice, which adds a lot of tight bass, at about 6) there will be plenty of bass. I personally keep my bass at about 4-4.5 and my DV lower than romeo's and find no bass lacking in my chunk.
Romeo used a Triaxis on everything before The Odyssey. He recently switched to line 6 stuff, but I still think he tone was better w/the mesa stuff. You can get a used Triaxis on Ebay (mine was maybe $800-900, they're $1500 new) and a good power amp and you're getting a lot more amp for your money than a Triple Rectumfrier. Plus you don't really need 150watts of power to get a good sound. I use one half of a 50/50 poweramp through a 2x12" (Romeo uses halfback 4x12s).
Big strings? Romeo uses 10s. You're right on the technique part though.
As for the guy looking for the Iced Earth sound, Jon Schaffer has custom made "Larry" amp heads. But with a good tube head you can get pretty close. FalseRevRG is right though, the guitar doesn't really provide that much of the bass in Iced Earth. It mostly fills the midrange and the bass doubles it most of the time. Also Jon Schaffer's technique plays a HUGE role in his sound. However, I've been very successful with my Triaxis in getting a variety of effective Iced Earth sounds. That's the beauty of the triaxis. I can keep 99 different settings available (so far I use maybe 8, but its still a lot more than a 2-3 channel amp will give you) so I can switch between Iced Earth, Symphony X, or Dream Theater any time.
tvaillan said:
Ok, there are a lot better ways to get a Michael Romeo sound than what you're suggesting. First off, he uses the X2N pickup in the bridge, so why not just go for that? Though aside from SyX specifically, there are a lot of good pickups for metal, and just being super hot isn't always the answer (and good metal needs a tight sound, not just gainy).
Second, lots of bass, half treble? No, Romeo's treble is at about 8. Bass, not so much. Probably not over 5. Now this is on a Mesa/Boogie Triaxis which reacts in very subtle ways to EQ and doesn't respond well to excessive bass in the channel Romeo uses. Through a 4x12 bass set at 5 or so (he has his Presence and Dynamic Voice, which adds a lot of tight bass, at about 6) there will be plenty of bass. I personally keep my bass at about 4-4.5 and my DV lower than romeo's and find no bass lacking in my chunk.
Romeo used a Triaxis on everything before The Odyssey. He recently switched to line 6 stuff, but I still think he tone was better w/the mesa stuff. You can get a used Triaxis on Ebay (mine was maybe $800-900, they're $1500 new) and a good power amp and you're getting a lot more amp for your money than a Triple Rectumfrier. Plus you don't really need 150watts of power to get a good sound. I use one half of a 50/50 poweramp through a 2x12" (Romeo uses halfback 4x12s).
Big strings? Romeo uses 10s. You're right on the technique part though.
As for the guy looking for the Iced Earth sound, Jon Schaffer has custom made "Larry" amp heads. But with a good tube head you can get pretty close. FalseRevRG is right though, the guitar doesn't really provide that much of the bass in Iced Earth. It mostly fills the midrange and the bass doubles it most of the time. Also Jon Schaffer's technique plays a HUGE role in his sound. However, I've been very successful with my Triaxis in getting a variety of effective Iced Earth sounds. That's the beauty of the triaxis. I can keep 99 different settings available (so far I use maybe 8, but its still a lot more than a 2-3 channel amp will give you) so I can switch between Iced Earth, Symphony X, or Dream Theater any time.
A
Agtronic
New member
Re: Re: Symphony X tone
I've been playing a lot with my metal sound lately, and I've got it down pretty good. And I think what you just said is one of the most important parts to getting a good chunk. It has to be tight, and DRY. But in order for it to sound good, you gotta play HARD, attack the strings really hard, and I got best results with the gain on the guitar all the down to like 2. It gets really "glassy", but it's really tight. If you don't have a solid picking hand, it will sound like crap, but if you can really attach those things and still keep straight timing, it sounds NUTS.
I've been trying to record samples of some of my "discoveries", but my computer is all screwed-up, and I can't record anything without dropping "frames" ... it jumps all the time. Time for a format.
I wish I could show you guys what I mean with some samples ... I'll try and make some stuff.
TheOneTrueMatt said:
I've been playing a lot with my metal sound lately, and I've got it down pretty good. And I think what you just said is one of the most important parts to getting a good chunk. It has to be tight, and DRY. But in order for it to sound good, you gotta play HARD, attack the strings really hard, and I got best results with the gain on the guitar all the down to like 2. It gets really "glassy", but it's really tight. If you don't have a solid picking hand, it will sound like crap, but if you can really attach those things and still keep straight timing, it sounds NUTS.
I've been trying to record samples of some of my "discoveries", but my computer is all screwed-up, and I can't record anything without dropping "frames" ... it jumps all the time. Time for a format.
I wish I could show you guys what I mean with some samples ... I'll try and make some stuff.
A
acorec
Banned
Re: Re: Re: Symphony X tone
That "chunky" sound comes fron amp settings, speaker excursion, and compressor settings. There is so much to it. Go to Pro Sound Web and read the "distorted guitar" thread, you will learn how much is involved in getting that sound. ( BTW, most of the posts here are not right about how to get the chunky sound)
Go read about it!
Good Luck.
Agtronic said:
That "chunky" sound comes fron amp settings, speaker excursion, and compressor settings. There is so much to it. Go to Pro Sound Web and read the "distorted guitar" thread, you will learn how much is involved in getting that sound. ( BTW, most of the posts here are not right about how to get the chunky sound)
Go read about it!
Good Luck.
Sonixx
New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Symphony X tone
Let's hear a clip...acorec said:
tvaillan
New member
acorec, please post a url to the specific thread you mentionned at prosound web.
TheOnTrueMatt, ain't nothing wrong with a triple rectumfrier .. sounds amazing, but unless you can afford a nice clean amp and all the switching electronics, it ain't worth it. Triaxis doesn't touch the rectifier .. partially due to the fact that it only has 5 12AX7' and no 5UGA's (or whatever they're called). ( Woo!!! 5 tubes in a rack! .. pretty awesome nevertheless)
That being said, due to switching considerations and budget restraints .. i'm selling my rectumfrier and going with the triaxis / 50/50 setup.
To have the cash for the switching system and a nice clean amp ... i'd stick with the rectifier however. Need to own one for a while to know this.
TheOnTrueMatt, ain't nothing wrong with a triple rectumfrier .. sounds amazing, but unless you can afford a nice clean amp and all the switching electronics, it ain't worth it. Triaxis doesn't touch the rectifier .. partially due to the fact that it only has 5 12AX7' and no 5UGA's (or whatever they're called). ( Woo!!! 5 tubes in a rack! .. pretty awesome nevertheless)
That being said, due to switching considerations and budget restraints .. i'm selling my rectumfrier and going with the triaxis / 50/50 setup.
To have the cash for the switching system and a nice clean amp ... i'd stick with the rectifier however. Need to own one for a while to know this.