getting started set up

[thehook]

hope this makes sense ot everyone. If not feel free to ask questions.

I am going to be recording roots music. This includes folk music, blues, ballads and originals. I play acoustic guitar,banjo,harmonica and some fiddle. First I would like to say that I am not looking for an overproduced sound that is found in most 'country' music today. I feel that gets away from the point and captures things that are not real. But I would like my recordings to be clear and full of life. Not on low low grade equipment.

I am looking to put out a demo by summer to move around a little bit and give to friends. I think for the most part I will record guitar and vocals up front then add other things like the harmonica, banjo ect. I was wondering would it be wise to record the vocals and guitar tracks seperately or what if any differences could be heard sound wise.

I have been told that if I want to record seperate sources at the same time I would need a mixer and at least two mics. This gets me into the setup question which for the most part is what I am concerned with. I am looking for recomendations for products that are both inexpensive and get quality results. A basic system that will get a well recorded demo out there.
would I need a preamp for any mics I get in order to get a useable signal?

Are there mics that would work well for both acoustic instruments and vocals?

Lastly I may be interested in tube preamps I hear that got good sound and lively and full. Any one know anything about any of these?

$500 budget for starting but I got a comp so all I need is some decent mic/s maybe a mixer depending maybe a pre depending and maybe some monitros or headphones. Looking for the best bang for buck type of thing at the moment.

 

[DJL]

Hmm... acoustic guitar, banjo, harmonica, fiddle, plus vocals.

Ok, three mics... a Shure Bullet, SM57, and a Oktava MC-012 or Marshall MXL603S.

 

[borntoplease]

mxl v67g for vox - 100.00
pair of oktava mc012 for acoustic strings - 200.00 (cheaper on ebay, maybe)
shure bullet for harmonica - 100.00 (sm57 might work, not shure though, maybe someone could say)
SP VTB1 tube pre - 129.00

that right there is over budget and all you have is mics and a pre. i hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but youre really not going to be able to buy a mixer, mics, mic pres, monitors, cables, mic stands, and what not for 500.00

you could do it, maybe, if you just bought the octava mc012 and recorded everything with that, though you'd need a pop filter for any vocals.

that would mean you would have 400 bucks to stretch out over everything else, still, kinda like shopping at Saks with a 10 dollar bill.

do you have any recording software? something decent could run you a couple hundred easily.

im not trying to get you down, but you might be better off saving your money and waiting till you have closer to a couple thousand before you try and build something for recording. thats just me though. i wouldnt recomend shitty gear, but im sure if you did want to blow your 500, you could do it but only with stuff that you would have to upgrade in about 2 weeks.
just my 2 cents

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

SM-58 vocals (and to overdub harmonica later)- $100
MXL 603- Acoustic guitar, fiddle, banjo- $100
M Audio DMP-3- Two channel mic pre amp- $160

At that price point I wouldn't get hung up on tube gear. There are some very nice pieces when you start to get into the $1000+ a channel ball park but at the budget end I'd go for transparent. The DMP-3 is very nice for the money.

You'll also have to think about the soundcard in your comp and recording software.

I'd post in the newbie forum because here people will just talk to you about microphones (and rightly so).

 

[deepwater]

Audix just released a harmonica mic.

 

[Track Rat]

SM-58 vocals (and to overdub harmonica later)- $100
MXL 603- Acoustic guitar, fiddle, banjo- $100
M Audio DMP-3- Two channel mic pre amp- $160

At that price point I wouldn't get hung up on tube gear. There are some very nice pieces when you start to get into the $1000+ a channel ball park but at the budget end I'd go for transparent. The DMP-3 is very nice for the money.

You'll also have to think about the soundcard in your comp and recording software.

This is sound advice.

 

[DJL]

I've never tried the MXL603S on bango... has anyone else here ever tried one... and if so, what did you think?

 

[thehook]

SM-58 vocals (and to overdub harmonica later)- $100
MXL 603- Acoustic guitar, fiddle, banjo- $100
M Audio DMP-3- Two channel mic pre amp- $160

At that price point I wouldn't get hung up on tube gear. There are some very nice pieces when you start to get into the $1000+ a channel ball park but at the budget end I'd go for transparent. The DMP-3 is very nice for the money.

You'll also have to think about the soundcard in your comp and recording software.

I'd post in the newbie forum because here people will just talk to you about microphones (and rightly so).

what would be the sound differance in recording vox and guitar at the same time but through two mics? I know if this was the case I would need a mixer. Two channel pre amp does that mean I could record from two sources on two mics at a time and skip the mixer unless needed later? Because you seem to know your stuff. What are these mics like and sound wise. Sorry that is such an open question but I don't know what to say to be more specific.
thanks
matt

 

[DJL]

Hi Matt... hopefully the following will help you some...

what would be the sound differance in recording vox and guitar at the same time but through two mics?

You can get closer to each sound source rather than spitting the difference (better placement).

I know if this was the case I would need a mixer.

Not necessarily... (see below).

Two channel pre amp does that mean I could record from two sources on two mics at a time and skip the mixer unless needed later?

Yes.

What are these mics like and sound wise.

Kevin's mic recommendations are good and they should sound good... however, I'm not so sure about the MXL603S on bango.

 

[freshmattyp]

Save your money on the Bullet mic until you need to record some dirty blues sounds. The 58 will cover that nicely, or just back up about a foot off of a condenser mic.

 

[paddyponchero]

I've never tried the MXL603S on bango... has anyone else here ever tried one... and if so, what did you think?

I havn't tried it either but banjo is not a fan of bright condenser mics, I'm generally not a fan of the SM57 but it does a good job on banjo.

 

[DJL]

freshmattyp is correct... however, if you do want to record some killer dirty harp type blues... try this... harp into bullet... bullet into something like a Fender Blues Jr amp... and mic the amp.

 

[DJL]

I havn't tried it either but banjo is not a fan of bright mics, I'm generally not a fan of the SM57 but it does a good job on banjo.

I agree.

Here was my thinking...

Bullet... harp and maybe some vocal (see freshmattyp's condenser mic suggestion).

Either the Oktava MC-012 or Marshall MXL603S for... acoustic guitar, fiddle, and vocals.

SM-57... bango, vocals, harp amp.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Hi Matt... hopefully the following will help you some...

what would be the sound differance in recording vox and guitar at the same time but through two mics?

You can get closer to each sound source rather than spitting the difference (better placement).

I know if this was the case I would need a mixer.

Not necessarily... (see below).

Two channel pre amp does that mean I could record from two sources on two mics at a time and skip the mixer unless needed later?

Yes.

What are these mics like and sound wise.

Kevin's mic recommendations are good and they should sound good... however, I'm not so sure about the MXL603S on bango.

Thanks thehook but I think pretty much everyone who's contributed to this thread knows more than I do about microphones and recording.

DJL has answered your questions excellently and I must confess to not having used an MXL 603S on banjo. Perhaps the dynamic mic (57/58 or whatever) would be a better choice for that?

God luck with it anyway.

 

[scrubs]

I've never tried the MXL603S on bango... has anyone else here ever tried one... and if so, what did you think?

I haven't used it on banjo, but I have used it on a Martin Backpacker, which has a sort of banjo-like sound due to its small body. The sound was very usable.

 

[thehook]

so if I got a good two channel pre amp I wouldn't need a mixer. What would be the pros and cons of this? I don't think I will record more than two sources at a time anyway. But your all saying that if I mic the guitar and vox seperate it will be more clear and well defined? What would be some things be it hardware/software or techniques that you guys have found for making recordings sound wamer?

 

[Guitar Jim]

You could consider not using the computer and simply buy a digital recorder like the FostexVF80. It is an 8 track recorder, you can record 2 tracks at once using 2 mics, there's onboard phantom power for condenser mics, onboard effects, onboard eq, onboard mastering and an onboard CD burner. It does everything that you currently need and does it with CD quality digital sound.
Musiciansfriend were recently selling them for $499. All extra you'll need then is just one or two mics..... probably one condenser and one dynamic.

 

[thehook]

I asked some people over at rec pit about digital workstations and got mostly bad news. They say the products are good but a computer is better. What is good about digital stations and bad compared to computers? Would sound quality be lacking? how are the preamps sound wise in this particular unit?
anyone have expierence with other digital stations? I have heard so many no just use your sound card responses from so many I guess I need a little convincing. However I did see that people at rec pit are highly opinionated and stuborn assholes a lot of the time. hmmmm

 

[thehook]

bump I also have a dirty blues voice ala tom waits and john lee hooker mixed would you all still stick yo your choices mic wise

 

[thehook]

also somewhere I found a link of Harvy Gerst talking about the v67 mic. What is the differance between v67 and v67g? I like the reviews for it. Said full, warm and lively. Said good for country/ballads which is right up my alley. Thanks