Getting frustrated with how mixes translate

[SonicAlbert]

The room is tiny, a true box room... (9' x 7' x 8').
Speakers Behringer Truth B2031 Active (originals, not the re-release). These are approx 12" from the corners of the room with 2x 1meter square 3" thick acoustic panels on the mirror points to the sides. Rear wall is hollow.

The high frequency switch on the back is set at -4db - likewise with bass.

If I turn it up a little and walk anywhere in the house it sounds ok. There is no lack of high end clarity. As soon as it goes on CD and is chucked in any CD player the high end goes completely. It actually sounds like there is a pillow infront of the speakers.

I'm going to think about this more, but my first impression would be to pull the speakers more toward each other and away from the corners. The inside front edges of my Mackies are only 32 inches from each other and I get a very good idea of the stereo image. My KRK's are between the Mackie's, and my room is bigger than yours.

Also, if the high end disappears that much when you take your mix to other systems, that means your monitors are pumping out some seriously exaggerated high end. You might think about picking up a pair of the Mackie 624's or KRK V6's. I'm pretty sure you'd get better mixes in that room with those smaller and better monitors.

I can totally relate to the frustration of working on something for weeks and then it doesn't sound the way you want it on other systems. For me personally, the money spent on more appropriate monitoring would be well worth it in time and aggravation saved. If music is that important to you that you spend this kind of time on it, you might really want to give some serious thought to saving up for a smaller pair of monitors.

 

[AlexW]

Yep, I had/have a pair of Roland DS90 monitors that have a very exagerrated high end. Mixes always came out sounding dull (as if the dolby switch was turned on). I've switched over to a pair of Wharfdale 8.2 actives which seem to translate much more easily. I occasionally check things back on the Rolands and it's amazing how much of difference there is.

 

[dwillis45]

I personally really hate printing mixes, burning CD's and then taking them around to different playback settings, although I do that of course. It's just that it's so time-consuming when you do it multiple times.

I hear that! I've always relied on the old conventional wisdom of playing back mixes on a car stereo. Unfortunately, at $2.69 a gallon, mixing is getting a little on the expensive side!

 

[Fishybob]

Thanks guys.

It does sound like a Dolby type HF reduction... very dissapointing!

I can't really get my speakers closer together as the desk is pretty large (again left over from the 'proper' studio.

I have just got a new job (yay! ) so will be able to pump some more cash into the studio each month (probably £200- £250).


Do you reckon the first priority should be new smaller nearfield speakers or Room Acoustic absorption???

 

[SonicAlbert]

Do you reckon the first priority should be new smaller nearfield speakers or Room Acoustic absorption???

I suspect this will be hotly debated, but I'd say get the monitors first and then tune the room. However, I think that part of the plan with getting new monitors should be a way to figure out how place them optimally.

 

[mixsit]

..The high frequency switch on the back is set at -4db - likewise with bass.

With regard to the highs on these, I see on Rip Rowan's review he pulled the top eq down also but they were still harsh sounding. I was wondering if you feel that you might be doing any extra top eq in your mixing that might be trying to compensate even further for the speakers?

If I turn it up a little and walk anywhere in the house it sounds ok. There is no lack of high end clarity. As soon as it goes on CD and is chucked in any CD player the high end goes completely. It actually sounds like there is a pillow infront of the speakers.

What happens when you flip it around, play other c/d's through your monitor chain as is?

...Do you reckon the first priority should be new smaller nearfield speakers or Room Acoustic absorption???

I don't see why you would want smaller speakers. Box size only effects low-end extension and/or efficiency, not necessarily accuracy. Better speakers, sure. As far as treatment, 2"-4" fiberglass panels wrapped in cloth is dirt cheap and a good bet in either case.
Wayne

 

[Middleman]

The room is tiny, a true box room... (9' x 7' x 8').
Speakers Behringer Truth B2031 Active (originals, not the re-release). These are approx 12" from the corners of the room with 2x 1meter square 3" thick acoustic panels on the mirror points to the sides. Rear wall is hollow.

The high frequency switch on the back is set at -4db - likewise with bass.

If I turn it up a little and walk anywhere in the house it sounds ok. There is no lack of high end clarity. As soon as it goes on CD and is chucked in any CD player the high end goes completely. It actually sounds like there is a pillow infront of the speakers.

I know these speakers are far too large for a room of this size - but they are left over from my old house.

I can work for weeks (and have been!) on tracks that sound great just for them to turn into cr&p on all other systems. I end up guessing what needs to come out.

Thanks for the advice SonicAlbert, great tips... I already do most of them. (can't go further back in the room cause there is no more room!)

As others have pointed out, its the room. You can spend months on the mix but if you don't treat the room then you are making judgements based on the sonics of the room. The problem is, your room sonics are making you mix for the room and not the average of various systems.

You need to buy a box of rock wool, cover it in burlap and put about 6 panels around your room. This will soak up the bass nodes and reduce the nulls as well as reduce the pinging and warbling that happens with high frequencies in small spaces. Then you will have reduced the coloring your space is providing. After that, if you are still having problems, it will be either your monitors or your convertors if there are still significant problems.

Some of the low end convertors are so digitally hard the you tend to compensate by pulling back the highs. What you end up with is a mix that sounds flat and is akin to the sound you are hearing now, like cotton over the mix. I used to use an Audiophile 24/96 card and it had this problem.

There are sources on the internet where you can get 6 panels of 2x4 two inch thick rockwool for $39 a box. About $100 of burlap material and you have some really great bass traps. By the way, any room under about 1600 sq. ft. is going to require significant treatment based on the nature of sound waves and the way they behave in small spaces.

 

[SonicAlbert]

After reading these posts I'm already convinced you should do the room acoustics thing first, then get better monitors. I'm tempted to try the rock wool approach myself.

 

[e-man]

this thread sounds familiar...

i've been watching this thread with interest because i've been suffering from the same problems.

i mix with a pair of alesis mk2 actives and a pair of cerwin vega bookshelf speakers through a jvc home stereo straight amp, switching between the two for comparison.

when i take my mixes out of my room (approx. 14' X 20') they are bottom heavy with a boxy quality in the lower mids. i try to switch between a commercial cd and my mix periodically and that has helped the bottom heaviness somewhat, but the boxiness persist. i think i may be getting some behRINGer build up. all i can afford for now unfortunately.

i'm want to pick up a measurement mic and check my room for balance. i suspect a weak low end causing me to run things too hot in the room. i suspect my boxiness is coming from my pre's. i'm thinking i need to get better at finding and eliminating the offending freq's in my individual tracks.

one of my challenges this month has been a demo job that a local band needed for their trip to nashville this week. i was much less than happy with the results. i think they were ok with it, but i know i can do better, even with my budget equipment.

just wanted to let you guys know i appreciate the info shared here. it's been a help.

later...

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

I did some recording and mixes in an unfinished basement before building my basement studio. Nothing would translate, mostly bass problems. Back and forth a million times to the car, walkman, other stereos etc.

I now have a 10'x18'x7' tracking room and a 10'x12'x7' control room with some basic acoustic treatment, i.e. rockwool panels in the corners, staggered on walls, above mix position and drum kit. Did some quick tracks and a mix in the new studio and everything translates nearly perfectly. The difference is stunning. I'm sure I don't have a flat room response, but I really think it'll be good enough.

I have to believe that the room acoustics are your biggest problem.

 

[Fishybob]

Thanks everyone.

The thing that was putting me off making rigid fibreglass panels was the
(simple yet time consuming) wood work frame designs. If it's ok just to wrap the stuff up like a present and hang it in the corners then I'll get down the DIY shop ASAP.

It seems everyone has had some degree of experience with this problem. Thanks again for the great advice. I'll get wrapping.