Getting bored with beats and synth loops! Help!

[miroslav]

You gotta have something to say before opening mouth.

Can you please explain that to kcearl.

 

[kcearl]

watch it!

 

[kcearl]

Loops repeat, phrases don't, that would be the difference.

Put on most dance songs and it's 8 bar phrases, not 8 bar loops.

The first sequence setup I had was a Sequentials Circuits setup in 1983. It was all loops and it was a good learning tool.

Songs are based on the pacing of the sex act. Phrases build to an orgasm, loops are like having sex on cocaine... thus the OP's frustration.

Kinda agree, kinda dont...phrases also repeat themselves...most rock songs are repeating with only the vocals and lead differentiating..

Intro verse chorus bridge outro...talk about a formula


Thats why dissecting songs as a template is such an interesting exercise...I did it with a 1965 Isaac Hayes song recently, the same basic repeating throughout the song with horns adding the extra dynamics after the first verse and chorus

They were what drove it to its "orgasm", the rest were loops more or less, call them what you like

 

[miroslav]

Yes...the structure of most songs has repetative elements...but I hate it when a song is built from the repetition of just one or two elements.
Like some songs that have only one good verse/chorus...so they repeat those same lyrics 4-5 times in order to stretch out their lame creative effort into a whole "song".

 

[Rambone]

skimmed through this thread, and I see a lot of the same thing.

Why do some many people act as mucial elitists because they know more than someone else? Really the post that got me was Rambones.

Believe me, I know a great deal of theory and technique - I teach piano -

But I am definitely not going to talk down to someone because of it. Why should they have the need to "Understand music theory" if they can make something unique without it.

Many people can grasp concepts without learning what it's called, or how it relates to another concept. Put anyone with at least a little music experience infront of a piano, and they'll be able to play you a major scale ; but it doesn't mean they understand what they're playing.

What's important is what someone can do creatively, and not how much schooling or studying they have done.

Probably should've stayed out of this one - but I really disagree with the way some of you are talking. Not to mention it's really putting the OP down, rather then helping guide him/her in the right direction.

the OP says he's in a creative rut. I suggested that he should probably branch out and gain more knowledge because more knowledge never hurts. Music theory can help the songwriter try different routes to get to where they want to go, instead of aimlessly sitting a computer clicking buttons trying to come up with a tiny 4-bar loop. Another thing (and perhaps the most important)...The hardest thing to do as a songwriter is to TRY to write music. Some of my best stuff comes to me when i'm doing something else. For example, when I go out jogging, I always take a tiny digital recorder with me in case something gets looped in my head.
You'd be surprised at how valuable it's been to me.

My suggestion to the OP (aside from music theory) is to make the songwriting process more organic and less demanding. Step away from the computer and imagine beats in your head.

 

[kcearl]

the OP says he's in a creative rut. I suggested that he should probably branch out and gain more knowledge because more knowledge never hurts. Music theory can help the songwriter try different routes to get to where they want to go, instead of aimlessly sitting a computer clicking buttons trying to come up with a tiny 4-bar loop. The hardest thing to do as a songwriter is to TRY to write music. Some of my best stuff comes to me when i'm doing something else. For example, when I go out jogging, I always take a tiny digital recorder with me in case something gets looped in my head.
You'd be surprised at how valuable it's been to me.

My suggestion to the OP (aside from music theory) is to make the process more organic and less demanding. Step away from the computer and imagine beats in your head.

yeah, you're quite the motivator

The one thing that annoys me with the current thinking among many "musicians" is that they can should "write" songs like that. I've run into so many of them where I'm from. They usually have very little actual talent but they still pump out a lot of material through Garageband and the like (usually boring derivative nonsense). Some of them can't even tune a guitar properly, let alone understand the difference between B flat and C sharp. It's sad, actually.

Can we hear your non boring derivative nonsense?

 

[dintymoore]

I have learned that when you have confidence you piss people off. If you want to get along with everyone say stuff like "gosh, I don't know, what do you guys think?", then it's like an old lady party and everyone feels safe.

But for me, when I was growing up, I really appreciated people who cut the shit and told me what they thought. It's blunt but it's real.

So that's what I try and do when people ask questions here. You might not think it, but it's based on the fact that I honestly like people.

always check the expiration date!

 

[kcearl]

Yup same here


so


Loops are shite

You are shite

Everyone is shite


kill yourselves

 

[moresound]

Hey! I'm not the shit yet!.!

 

[dintymoore]

A couple of cans of the tasty stew and you'll both be fine.

 

[moresound]

But does it have the BIG thumb print on the top?

 

[amd7000]

Cheers guys. Think I found out what needs to be done with my future projects. Need to learn quite a bit more before I dive straight into cubase and think I can make a track. Song structure and music theory is high on the list.

 

[guitaristic]

You gotta have something to say before opening mouth. Or picking up guitar, turning on drum machine, etc.

I disagree....that may be the case for you, but it really depends on the song writer. Sometimes I hit a writer's block and nothing comes to me, but I'll pick up the guitar or sit at my piano, play a few chords, and the words and eventually verses start flowing. Different strokes for different folks.

And as for the whole loops thing...I agree with a previous poster. As long as the finished product sounds good, who cares?

 

[Rambone]

yeah, you're quite the motivator



Can we hear your non boring derivative nonsense?

What's with the smartass attitude? I'm trying to help out the guy/girl. What are you doing???

Also.....I have plenty of material that's already recorded but everything is on separate tracks on a couple of digital recorders (i have a thread on here). I'm currently in the process of buying a MTR and a few other things so I can work out some of the kinks and upload my music to myspace.

My quote about "boring derivative nonsense" was directly speaking to the talentless people who have no idea what they're doing and yet they think that they're musicians because they have a laptop with garageband. Myspace is FLOODED with these people. That being said....I'm not throwing the OP into that category because i don't know him/her enough to make that judgment.

 

[dintymoore]

Cheers guys. Think I found out what needs to be done with my future projects. Need to learn quite a bit more before I dive straight into cubase and think I can make a track. Song structure and music theory is high on the list.

Yes, the arrangement is crucial. It's sorta like the plans to a house.

The great thing of all this stuff is that you don't have to pay $25-100/hr to mess around like you did 25 years ago.

Even guys like Hendrix and Jaco learned how to do it by copying others. That's how we learn to walk & talk, and you'll develop your own style without thinking about it.

It's a great thing to take some of your favorite songs apart, maybe count out the bars and see how the form is, write in on paper.

Drums are all about form. A good drum track outlines the form of a tune. That is so important I can't tell you! The song should go like reading a book "once upon a time there were 3 bears..." like that, corny as it sounds. It should be like a sound movie.

So in a nutshell, study everything you can, look under every rock and learn your craft, then when you make music, forget it all and don't think, do it like having sex.

It's a funny combo of being in control yet being totally out of control.

 

[kcearl]

What's with the smartass attitude? I'm trying to help out the guy/girl. What are you doing???

what am I doing where?

Im not blethering on about the sad state of affairs in the music world...like not being able to tune a guitar...man the death of music <==== extra smartass

Also.....I have plenty of material that's already recorded but everything is on separate tracks on a couple of digital recorders (i have a thread on here). I'm currently in the process of buying a MTR and a few other things so I can work out some of the kinks and upload my music to myspace.

great, stick it up in the mp3 clinic when you're done, great bunch of musicians in there...but myspace? 96kbps??

everything sounds shit on myspace.

My quote about "boring derivative nonsense" was directly speaking to the talentless people who have no idea what they're doing and yet they think that they're musicians because they have a laptop with garageband. Myspace is FLOODED with these people. That being said....I'm not throwing the OP into that category because i don't know him/her enough to make that judgment.

a laptop and garageband is a great place to start...maybe some get better, maybe some dont

I'll let you decide who is and who isnt a musician..Im definitely not good enough, or presumptuous enough to

 

[grimtraveller]

This just may be the crux of the matter. You gotta have something to say before opening mouth. Or picking up guitar, turning on drum machine, etc.

I know if I just pick up my guitar and start playing, it quickly degenerates into the same old, same old. Not that I've got anything against House of the Rising Sun, or a Stand By Me progression in C, but I've got to work damn hard to come up with something new.

I don't want to take these words out of context and I think I know where Commanda may be coming from, but I intensely disagree. On a couple of counts.
If I pick up a guitar or bass, I may slide to a familiar note. But then, I may not ! I haven't got a clue what I'll do. In terms of writing songs, as I keep saying - there are so many different ways of writing a song. The ways are really only of interest after the event and to possibly a tiny fraction of people on this planet. What, I think, most people care about is whether they like a song, not how it came about. Obviously, we will find it interesting.
And following on from that, it's by no means either a foregone conclusion or a requirement to have something to say at the outset. Only God knows exactly how many songs have begun as a snatch of melody or an entire piece of music, sans les mots. Most of mine certainly have nothing to say at their genesis {and sometimes it's debatable what they're saying, if anything, on completion }.

 

[Rambone]

what am I doing where?

Im not blethering on about the sad state of affairs in the music world...like not being able to tune a guitar...man the death of music <==== extra smartass

It's my opinion. Some will agree, some will not.

great, stick it up in the mp3 clinic when you're done, great bunch of musicians in there...but myspace? 96kbps??

everything sounds shit on myspace.

I used Myspace as an example because it's very easy to network and give my music exposure on there.

a laptop and garageband is a great place to start...maybe some get better, maybe some dont

I'll let you decide who is and who isnt a musician..Im definitely not good enough, or presumptuous enough to

I'm not dissing Garageband on its own. I'm talking about people who act like they're talented simply because they can edit samples with it. I'm only speaking from experience as I've tried collaborating with many of them in the past. Some people are talented but they'd be just as talented with a 4-track, acoustic guitar and a drum machine. Give the poseurs a 4-track, acoustic guitar and a drum machine and they'd be lost. Like I said...music and the arts lends itself to many different viewpoints. This happens to be mine.

 

[RAMI]

HAhA! @ This thread.

 

[kcearl]

It's my opinion. Some will agree, some will not.




I used Myspace as an example because it's very easy to network and give my music exposure on there.




I'm not dissing Garageband on its own. I'm talking about people who act like they're talented simply because they can edit samples with it. I'm only speaking from experience as I've tried collaborating with many of them in the past. Some people are talented but they'd be just as talented with a 4-track, acoustic guitar and a drum machine. Give the poseurs a 4-track, acoustic guitar and a drum machine and they'd be lost. Like I said...music and the arts lends itself to many different viewpoints. This happens to be mine.

word...................