Gear question....newbie to newbie...

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Michaelyu5

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Greetings....Like most of you, I learned a while back to do a lot of searching before asking questions here (just a hint...stay off the "microphone thread"). I am building, what I guess is called a project studio, meaning I am only buying gear to record my own music (right?). The problem is, I have books and I read posts here daily. I buy the mags and I am learning what the gear I do own, or want to own, does. I am playing with my own gear, though not as much as I need to, and I am looking at purchasing a nicer mic, a compressor, and maybe another pre.... With all the searching and studying, however, I have not been able to make a decision on what to purchase. I am not asking what I should buy here, but rather how do you as a newbie make your choice? For me, all my origional choices were based on two intial criteria:
1. Whatever the blurb in Musicians Friend said about the product...(hint, they write to sell the stuff! Who knew?)
2. Price. I know I want a Nueman.....but I cant afford it....so Im looking at a B1....yeah, I know....but price does play when your starting out....

I am wondering how you guys make your decisions...at my end of the game, I am simply not trained enough or serious (I guess) enough to save and drop a grand on one widget...BUT, with all the research out there, I find it difficult to make a decision on the gear and quality that is in my range. At least Im beyond the "gospel" of MF .... Any stories or advice is appreciated.
 
What will you be recording? Vocals? Acoustic guitar?

What is your price range?
 
Okay,

I haven't bought this stuff yet as escrow won''t close until the end of the month, and even then I need to build out a space to house it, so this is all speculative still.

My whole focus is vocals, mostly female.

The first thing I did was set out a budget. Then I had to cut the budget. Then I had to cut it again. Right now I am down to $3K. When you have champagne taste $3K doesn't go very far. As I was specing out these studios, throwing gear (virtual gear) away, adding cheaper gear, cutting corners, I really really had to work out how all of the stuff was going to work together. For example, at one point I was going to use a Abit motherboard with a S/PDIF in port (not many mobos have S/PDIF in... most it is just out), and then have a M-Audio Tampa (which as a S/PDIF out and decent converters) feed directly into the mobo.... trouble was, I wasn't all too sure that was going to work so I decided to keep looking. When you have cash or go the all-in-one route (I would have loved to get the Tascam FW-1884 for example... also looked at the Yamaha 01X, but that digital mixer/control surface has too many issues right now) you don't need to worry so much how it all plugs in.

Part of my problem is that I wanted all of these effects and MIDI capability. I wanted a de-esser, reverb, compression, yada yada yada. I may not be able to use it all yet, but I wanted it there when I did need it as I would not, most likely, be able to go back to the well. My wife is already none too happy.

So it was learn, add, toss, learn, add, toss, etc. etc. etc..

So right now, unless I win the lottery, this is the shopping list. I'll explain my choices as I go along.

I started with the DAW as it was the biggest bite of funds. I am building this myself.
I chose an Asus motherboard with integrated video. I'm not playing Quake here. It doesn't have Firewire, but add on Firewire adapters cost less than $50 if you need one. I held back on the processor, stopping at a Intel 800Mhz FSB P4 running at 2.6Ghz. The price really took off around 3Ghz and I wanted to spend the money elsewhere. Likewise I stopped at 512MB. I wanted to go with 1GB, but.....
I only have one 80GB HDD, a CD-RW/DVD drive, and a 19" display. I really wanted a LCD, but at $150 more for a 17" the cost was too dear. I chose to spend an extra $20 on a wireless keyboard/mouse bundle however. The DAW came out to $776. I may still spring for a 40GB HDD to keep the apps off of the 80GB. It's another $50.

Let me pause here to explain that EVERY EXTRA DOLLAR really adds up. You toss this on and that on and before you know it your wife is saying 'no' to the whole damn thing.

I then looked at how I was going to get the noise into the box. Right now Steinberg (remember that functionality I wanted?) bundles Cubase SE with 5 VST instruments (SE versions also), along with a Steinberg VSL2020 sound card into one package deal that you can buy for $450. So there's the sequencer, VST instruments, and sound card into one really reasonable package. The VSL2020 provides 4 ADAT, 2 MIDI, 2 S/PDIF, 4 analog in, and 4 analog out, and it is supposed to provide a processor boost when using VST instruments. It's not perfect, but remember the budget.

I needed a preamp, and boy was this part fun. I went all over the map. From a DMP3 to a Great River, whereupon I ran into the wife and went back to the DMP3. Finally settled on a Roland MMP-2. The two channel MMP-2 is really interesting. It appears to be on the brink of being discontinued... initially about $650, it's down to $250 (maybe less when I buy it). The reviews all liked it, they just didn't like it's price, and now, the price is not an issue. The MMP-2 brought ALL KINDS of effects to the table, along with compression and a de-esser.

The MMP-2 wants an AKG 3000B microphone for input to exploit the microphone modeling, but everything I have read about the MMP-2 doesn't have much good to say for that feature, so I decided to ignore that and go with a Audio-Technica 4050. I also want an Electro-Voice RE-20 but I may not be able to sneak that past the warden.... we'll see.

One of the areas where I did not want to budge was, for me, a budget buster. I wanted a Kurzweil Rumour. Well, actually, I wanted a KSP8, but let's not go there.... The Rumour brings the top reverb that I wanted, along with top quality converters.

Let me digress here and point out that, unintentionally, I am going to have three A/D paths in to the DAW.... the MMP-2 outputs digital, the Rumour outputs digital (and highly regarded digital at that) and of course the VSL2020 inputs analog and converts to digital.

I needed a MIDI keyboard and settled on the Roland A-37, which will also serve as the kids piano.

I wanted great monitors. So the ADAM quickly hit the bone pile, then the Dynaudio, then the Event, and finally the Yorkvilles. I had to choose between the Rumour and monitors. The Rumour won. I am going to be listening and judging on a pair of Klipsch Promedia GMX A-2.1 computer speakers.

The total cost, without tax and shipping (which hopefully I can avoid) is $2,998.13.

Is it perfect? Heck no. This is a bundle of compromise, but it is also a bundle of functionality...

  • Microphone modeling
  • Preamp modeling
  • 4 bands parametric EQ
  • modeled tube compression
  • enhancer
  • de-esser
  • reverb
  • gated reverb
  • reverse reverb
  • reverb/compression combinations
  • LaserVerb(tm)
  • chorus/flange+delay+reverb combinations
  • Groove Agent SE
  • HALion SE
  • The Grand SE
  • D'Cota SE
  • Virtual Guitarist Electric SE

I am sure of one thing... the learning curve is bending up again.
 
Thanks Chris...
I record my vocals and my Martin HD-28 into a Behringer Eurorack going into my i-mac via an edirol interface. I record with a SM-57 into an ART MP pre and I have a crappy Nady mic also. I've got Cubsis VST and Peak Deck but both run on "Classic" Mac, not my OSX so I've been using a freeware Audacity and (again I'm a newbie) but I love this much more. Its so easy to use and it has a lot of effects I can use and play with.
Anyway, I'm looking at getting a compressor because I'm pretty percussive and strum loud as well as the vocals go with soft verses and harder chorus so I think a compressor will be a good investment even though presently I use the one built in. I'm thinking a RNC is the best bet BUT thats good quality and price for only one. I may start looking for a compressor with two channels....
I guess Im wondering is, can I goto a Mars or Guitar Center and try out this stuff? I read about people renting expensive mics but where? Im in Northern San Diego county (Camp Pendleton) so the market is probably big enough to rent the stuff. I wonder if thats what I'll have to do in order to make a decent choice with the limited cash I have...when I have it....
 
Wheel...
Wow! Usually I know at least half the names of the stuff and then I run to my Sweetwater to reference....thanks for the suggestion on the gear...I was looking at a DMP3 to replace my ART but Ill look for the one you chose.
As far as the wife goes...brother, thats another post all together...there should be a separate discussion board for supporting gear a-holics in dealing with their other "fiscal" halves....my wife doesnt even listen to the stuff I record which is part good and part bad....part good in I can have the fun I'm doing all this for, and part bad in I have to rationalize (not explain) why spending 300 dollars on a new mic is a good idea...HEY, in fact, I can offer some advice on that...my wife loves to shop! All the expensive stuff....so...I let her run with it for a while and then when I want a new....guitar....I have ammo....just a thought...
Anyway, thanks again and good luck.

Michael
 
Michaelyu5 said:
I am wondering how you guys make your decisions... .... Any stories or advice is appreciated.
I recently bought my first gear so I can't provide much advice beyond sharing my decision-making process. I used a similar approach to you: search the boards here over and over, learn how everything works (in general terms), read consumer reviews on sites like zzsounds.com and musiciansfriend.com. I also got some advice from local retail people but I'm suspicious of them especially when you're in the store.

The final factors influencing my decision were product availability and price. In the end I felt like I spent plenty of time deliberating and just needed to buck up and make a decision.

Your approach sounds very good to me in terms of researching products, short of checking out someone else's equipment and having a conversation with that person. If you're looking for higher quality gear I imagine visiting other studios/setups might be more important, since there probably isn't enough equipment floating around to get consumer feedback or good advice from sales people.
 
www.thelisteningsessions.com/sessions.htm

Session5 is really good!

This site has a great number of preamp and microphone tracks. The site covers mics from the AKG 414 TLII to the SP B1 great for getting a feel for a mics sonic character before buying. I was really surprised by the CAD-E100, it sounded really different than any other mics listed, I liked the CAD-E100s' sound and it can be picked up for a good price used.


Rob
 
wheelema said:
The MMP-2 wants an AKG 3000B microphone for input to exploit the microphone modeling, but everything I have read about the MMP-2 doesn't have much good to say for that feature, so I decided to ignore that and go with a Audio-Technica 4050. I also want an Electro-Voice RE-20 but I may not be able to sneak that past the warden.... we'll see.

Don't pay more than $350 for the AT4050! If they want more, then hold out until you can find one for $350. The RE-20 is good alternative to a condenser mic for vox. If you end up buying both you may very well find yourself using the RE-20 more.
 
Michaelyu5.......

Once again, how much do you want to spend in total?????
 
Thanks Spin,
Currently, my "director of fiscal management" ....wife...has allocated about 400 bucks for my current installment to my gear. Basically, I have some gear, a Eurorack board, SM-57 and Nady cheapo mic, stands, ART tube MP pre and an Edirol UA-1A interface. I run the mics into the pre and mixer and run them into Audacity (freeware although I also have Cubasis VST and Peak Deck 3.0) on my i-mac. I am looking at getting a compressor and or better mic for my vocals. I am looking at going for a Roland MMP-2 so i can replace the ART with 2 channels and have the compressor built in. If I can pull one off ebay, that will leave me some cash to get a mic...I was thinking of just saving up for a AT 4040 or a TB1 instead of getting a B1 or other hundred dollar mic. At my level, I place the gear choices in categories of hundreds....I know a $300 4040 would be better but how much better I do not know. When I read posts on Manley, Rode, and Numan, I dont know how much difference there is between a $300 mic and a $100 mic anyway or if someone with my experience, or lack of would know the difference. One thing is certain, at this level, if I had a couple grand to spend, I would put in for leave, drive out to Indian River studios and pay them the cash to record me.

Spin, thanks for responding....

Happy Holidays to all...

Michael
 
I'll proffer some info once I get home from playing at the club.

Peace...

spin
 
God, everytime I read threads like this, I thank heaven that I married the woman I did. My first album, "Reunion", was her idea. She acted as executive producer and artistic director. Aside from playing harp on one track and singing on another (which she engineered herself, with a little help), she has handled mechanical royalties, residuals, work-for-hire agreements, copyright, and the layout and formatting of the jacket booklet, insert, and the original cover art. She has authorized the outlay of the price of a new Lexus in two years, with a serious upgrade planned for March or so. I'd marry her again in a heartbeat.-Richie
 
Richard,
We can start a new thread on your post...."How / where to meet women!"
: )

thats great though....does she have any sisters?
 
Well, Michael, the question has been asked before. Yes, she has a sister who is young, pretty, and unmarried. She's also crazier than a shithouse rat, and not necessarily my wife's delightful kind of crazy, either. But if you can talk her into supporting a commercial release, good luck. And I met her playing Medieval ballads at a Middle Ages recreation event.-Richie
 
Michaelyu5

i think i need to have your "director of fiscal management" talk to mine as she doesn't understand that gear doesn't grow on trees and plus she's a CPA so i need to really make my case before taking that trip to SAMASH ( and she heard it all so it's getting tougher now i'm watching Law and Order to counteract her objections - hey it worked for the tascam fw 1884) LOL

Yo Richie UR blessed - maype i'll have wifey play the flute on a track or two that ought to spark some interest

Guidance
 
Well, the question has been asked, how do you choose gear. Well, that's the real question isn't it? The rest is all details. The hard thing is to have patience, and know you can't do it all at once.
Richie's rule #1- Figure out what the job is before you buy the tool. A string quartet is not a hip hop duo. Figure out what you intend to record, and what you then intend to do with the recording.
Rule #2-Get stuff that will not have to go away or be replaced. That Sennheiser MD421 will be around after a lot of cheap condenser mics got sold. A good steel pop filter that will last may be a better deal than 3 cheap mic cables.
Rule #3- Plan the whole deal in advance, and prioritize. Lots of peripherals will suck up money, especially room conditioning, cables, and furniture. Not planning for room conditioning is one of the biggest mistakes you can make.
Rule #4 is a paradox. Don't be afraid to buy cheap gear that works, and don't be afraid to spend the money for a really good piece of gear. I look at equipment lists of recording studios. There's not very many that don't have an AKG C414 and a Shure SM57. A $600 multi-purpose multi-polar condenser mic, and an $80 cheap dynamic. My short all-star list of cheap gear that works- Shure SM-57, TC Electronics M300, FMR Audio RNC, Studio Projects B-1, Oktava MC012, Oktava MK319, M-Audio DMP-3. Great studios are made up of cheap gear that works, and expensive gear that works.
Rule #5- Establish a personal relationship with some real brick and mortar gear retailer. Returns are easier, and you can usually beat the on-line prices dealing with real humans.
Rule #6- Do less better. I'd rather mic a set of drums with 4 good mics and 4 good channels than 8 that suck. Don't try to do it all. That is the biggest problem with the gear list above. Yeah, it has a de-esser and midi capability, but the mic cabinet needs serious work. Of course, though, I have the tools to do *my job*, which requires a clean front end for a lot of acoustic instruments. Look, Ma, no synths, sound modules, sequencers, or samplers. My monitor chain is pretty weak. I sacrificed it all to get the best front end possible.
Rule #7- What you buy first is a kickass instrument. If your instrument sucks, why record it? Buy a better axe.
Rule #8- Another paradox- If everybody on Homerec.com thinks something is basically OK, it probably is (that RNC, for instance). But just because a piece of gear is less popular doesn't mean it sucks. AKG C2000B is one of the best kept secret cheap mics around. Don't be afraid to listen to a shit load of gear.
Rule #9- If something has bizzillions of features and is dirt cheap, it probably sucks (Behringer mixers, for instance). The M300 I noted above is one of the few exceptions. Don't buy a lot of cheap gear just to own a bunch of dials that sound like shit in any position.
Rule #10- Spook around on ebay, and steal an auction every so often. There are a whole lot of deals, both good and bad, out there. If you are patient, you can get some great deals, especially on used dynamic mics.- Richie
 
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