Full Circle - My Love Affair With the Shure SM7B (and the SP VTB-1!)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bigsnake00
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i recently got a Focusrite octopre and i'm still leaning towards the vtb-1's for individual tracking...but the octopre is great for recording cleaner sounds and recording numerous instruments at once, and has a bit more gain.
 
I dont regret it a bit...the thing was noisy and sat in the studio unused for 2 years...Double for the presonus Bluetube.
 
Wow, UA does not list a proper noise spec in the 710 manual . . . I am shocked and appalled!
 
I looked at one last week at guitar center...it kinda irks me when a good company dumbs down a product to sell it to the homewreccers.

Its like they put a tube in it to just light up and glow...and we fall for it like the prey of an Angler fish.

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Bigsnake00 said:
One word - Wow! That is a sick little preamp people. It was noticeably quieter than the 710, and to my ears, produced a much "thicker" sound when set to full blown tube. Plenty of headroom to drive the SM7b, and the thing is built like a little tank. And the price!!! I could get 6 channels for the price of one on the 710. I had left a vocal track on my AW that was recorded with the 710 and was able to compare the two - the VTB-1 just blew it away.
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choutmusic said:
i love my sm7b with my vtb-1 (got 2 of 'em) also.

I've been recording a guy who is a really good singer (kinda thom yorke-esque), and lately on a few tracks I've been cranking the input gain with the tube blend up and it sounds great - smooth but driven.

I love the tube gain on the vtb-1 for nearly anything - sounds great with bass and guitar too...I haven't used any other tube (or 'toob') pres that have come close - the presonus ones I've owned sounded pretty bad with the gain cranked.
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...guys...we're talkin' about a one-hundred-buck "starved plate" design tube preamp here...I can't say I had the same experience...I was impressed (for the price) with the VTB-1 with little or no tube-gain dialed in (I found the tube gain to work best between 9 and 12 o'clock...after that it got really grainy and distorted), but full blown tube gain?...you've got to be kidding...:confused:
 
myerkkk.. I've been waiting and waiting for a first hand account of the 710. Could it have been a noisy tube?

I can't comment on the VTB-1 - never even seen one. I have two starved plate single channel preamps, though, and I hate them both :D - but again, no comment.

love the ACMPs !!! whooo!!! [after some soldering, that is...] My SM7b mics sound great with them with the high impedance setting. I also like the ART Digital MPA with high impedance, provided the tube is quiet -- noisy tube == unusable with SM7b
 
Here is a rough mix of a song I have been working on. The main issue I have right now is the lack of actual monitors, so I'm actually having to mix on a pair of Grado Reference headphones - not fun. I need to retrack the little drum part as I spazzed out there for a second.

As far as the VTB-1 is concerned, everyone is going to have a different opinion of it I'm sure. I too have had great results with no tube, but for this particular song, I wanted a full tube driven sound on the vocals. I was singing fairly softly, and I found that the drive added a little edge that fit what I was trying to achieve. This is all subjective anyway. Again, for my purposes, I achieved the sound I was after for $130 instead of $700.

Listening to this on my Grados it sounds great, but my suspicion is that it is a little boomy.

Vocals SM7B ---> VTB-1 (I need to go back and see exactly how I had it set, but I know it was full tube)

Martin D-28 (always had a hard time recording this guitar) - AT2020 (all I've got at the moment) ----->VTB-1 (Full tube, not as much drive)

Both recorded to the AW1600 and then brought into Logic where I tweaked everything. I am used to analog tape compression in my recordings so everything is pretty squashed.

Let me know what you think....

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=962145&songID=7696332

(Now there is an updated version of the song on soundclick)
 
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I've praised this pre before and always hear the same thing...it sucks..I think a lot of people's ears hear price tag and not quality..they sure hear the clever marketing these companies stick down ur throat.

Bottom line..It really doesn't get better in the price range the VTB-1 is playing in..We are talking what, $150 the most? For that kind of sound, and that kind of construction..

I'll go one step further and say it can outperform a hell of a lot of pre's from its price range to around 1g price range by far..and I have heard a ton of pre amps in that category to know.

However, I do agree with the synopsis of turning the tube past 12'oclock..Things do tend to get extremely brittle and harsh sounding.

But as engineers and hobbyist, most ppl miss the obvious gem in owning one of these...ITS AN F-ING TUBE!!! You can change the tube, put in a more vintage tube and get an even better sound..

Great buy, especially for a home recordist..I mean after all we are still on homerecording.com aren't we?

Some ppl tend to come on here to talk about their professional lives..save that for gearslutz or something.
 
it sounds really good. I mean this is my first time here, and I don't really have much to compare it to, but I really think it sounds good. I really like the song as well. the whole thing is something I would be proud of...
 
Without the tube gain it was worth $100 easy...just keep that low.
 
deejaytrixx said:
Bottom line..It really doesn't get better in the price range the VTB-1 is playing in..We are talking what, $150 the most? For that kind of sound, and that kind of construction..
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...hmmmm...it is a great little pre for the money (tube gain to be used with restraint)...but there are at least two other similarly priced mic pres that are as good or better...the first is the M-Audio DMP-3...2 channels for $150 with Burr-Brown op-amps in the circuit...clean and powerful enough to power a dynamic like the SM7...

...the other is near legendary...the Rane MS1-B has been used on Grammy winning /sonic masterpieces like Steely Dan's albums...touted by engineer supreme Roger Nichols, the MS1-B also incorporates Burr-Brown op-amps and 66dB of clean and clear sonic imagery...this one gets my vote for best "sonic-bang" in it's price range...granted, there's no "starved-tube" circuit, but those effects can be easily duplicated with simple plug-ins...

deejaytrixx said:
But as engineers and hobbyist, most ppl miss the obvious gem in owning one of these...ITS AN F-ING TUBE!!! You can change the tube, put in a more vintage tube and get an even better sound..
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...the jury is still out as to whether, in a "starved-tube" design, a "vintage" tube will deliver "better" sound...cleaner, less microphonic/noisey yes...

...best advise...save up another $150 and buy the Golden Age Pre-73...80dB of transformer coupled gain...go from "clean" to "coloured" with just a dash of vintage "Neve tone"...basically the same preamp as the Chameleon Labs 7602, just minus the EQ section...IMHO, this is the best buy in low-end mic pres...easily upgradable (swap out the transformers) to true high-end sound for cheap!...

...of course, that's just my opinion...;)
 
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kidvybes said:
...hmmmm...it is a great little pre for the money (tube gain to be used with restraint)...but there are at least two other similarly priced mic pres that are as good or better...the first is the M-Audio DMP-3...2 channels for $150 with Burr-Brown op-amps in the circuit...clean and powerful enough to power a dynamic like the SM7...

...the other is near legendary...the Rane MS1-B has been used on Grammy winning /sonic masterpieces like Steely Dan's albums...touted by engineer supreme Roger Nichols, the MS1-B also incorporates Burr-Brown op-amps and 66dB of clean and clear sonic imagery...this one gets my vote for best "sonic-bang" in it's price range...granted, there's no "starved-tube" circuit, but those effects can be easily duplicated with simple plug-ins...



...the jury is still out as to whether, in a "starved-tube" design, a "vintage" tube will deliver "better" sound...cleaner, less microphonic/noisey yes...

...of course, that's just my opinion...;)
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Point taken..We can agree on the MS1-B..decent piece to have in any collection..But still, vtb-1 for the price range, and the customization options for those who know how to do it...still my #1 pick in this price range.
 
kidvybes said:
...the jury is still out as to whether, in a "starved-tube" design, a "vintage" tube will deliver "better" sound...cleaner, less microphonic/noisey yes...

...of course, that's just my opinion...;)
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"better" sounding is completely relative and is hardly ever the word to accurately describe vintage gear IMO...but you can get closer to an older analogue tube "sound" that everyone's ears and minds have been programmed to hearing without using the extra extra DSP on ur computer. Whether that is cleaner or makes for a lower noise floor altogether is an entirely different discussion;) And whether that makes the recording ur after is another argument..Point being sometimes the noise is the emulation u are after to capture the sonic footprint of old analog gear (since every piece introduced noise into the signal chain)

If you were after a different sounding "noise" that u weren't getting from the factory installed tube, u can change it and get different noise and let that color ur sound..for better of for worst, the option is still there, and for less than $200
 
deejaytrixx said:
"better" sounding is completely relative and is hardly ever the word to accurately describe vintage gear IMO...but you can get closer to an older analogue tube "sound" that everyone's ears and minds have been programmed to hearing without using the extra extra DSP on ur computer. Whether that is cleaner or makes for a lower noise floor altogether is an entirely different discussion;) And whether that makes the recording ur after is another argument..Point being sometimes the noise is the emulation u are after to capture the sonic footprint of old analog gear (since every piece introduced noise into the signal chain)

If you were after a different sounding "noise" that u weren't getting from the factory installed tube, u can change it and get different noise and let that color ur sound..for better of for worst, the option is still there, and for less than $200
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...I have no argument with the benefits of tube "rolling" or swapping in products designed to feed at least 100-300 volts through the tube circuit...you can definately hear different sonic characteristics from different vintage NOS tubes...

...it's with "starved-plate" designs like the VTB-1, where the tube is getting only minimal voltage (much less than 100V) that it's questionable if different tubes really make any difference...there's a difference between harmonic distortion (desireable) and noise (undesireable)...that's why I find transformer based pres, like the PRE-73 a more reliable bet if you truly want to dial in "harmonic distortion" to add flavor to your tracks...

...even the Groove Tubes "Brick" tube mic-preamp (which is not starved-plate) could not offer the sonic range I'm able to get from the $299 PRE-73's cheap transformers...I fully subscribe to the old Neve adage "Iron In, Iron Out"...that's where the flavor is!...
;)
 
Well...when the tube is nothing more than an on lamp...what is the difference whose tube is in there:rolleyes:
 
kidvybes said:
...guys...we're talkin' about a one-hundred-buck "starved plate" design tube preamp here...I can't say I had the same experience...I was impressed (for the price) with the VTB-1 with little or no tube-gain dialed in (I found the tube gain to work best between 9 and 12 o'clock...after that it got really grainy and distorted), but full blown tube gain?...you've got to be kidding...:confused:
Click to expand...

I've never used an expensive non starved tube pre, so I don't have much of a reference, but I think the tube drive sounds awesome on it...grainy and distorted is what I like about it...still sounds pretty smooth to me...I'll try and get a clip up of some driven vocals I've been doing with it soon.

I recently got a Presonus Studio Channel, and driving the tube in that would create the most crappy unusable blown out fuzz...I even swapped tubes in it to no avail...it sucked for that purpose...I got rid of it quick - no comparison to the vtb-1.

How about the Electro Harmonix mic pre? I'd guess that has a nice driven sound...? anybody?
 
You should learn from this that the starved plate design is just a marketing ploy to get your money...if you want quality there are plenty of other choices.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
I allways keep a strict policy of only paying for gear...by using and selling other gear...Id never touch a credit card unless there is an emergancy.
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I have GAS attacks and gear emergencies frequently.

mshilarious said:
I charge groceries . . . :o :D
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Been there, done that.

Bigsnake00 said:
Here is a rough mix of a song I have been working on. The main issue I have right now is the lack of actual monitors, so I'm actually having to mix on a pair of Grado Reference headphones - not fun. I need to retrack the little drum part as I spazzed out there for a second.

As far as the VTB-1 is concerned, everyone is going to have a different opinion of it I'm sure. I too have had great results with no tube, but for this particular song, I wanted a full tube driven sound on the vocals. I was singing fairly softly, and I found that the drive added a little edge that fit what I was trying to achieve. This is all subjective anyway. Again, for my purposes, I achieved the sound I was after for $130 instead of $700.

Listening to this on my Grados it sounds great, but my suspicion is that it is a little boomy.

Vocals SM7B ---> VTB-1 (I need to go back and see exactly how I had it set, but I know it was full tube)

Martin D-28 (always had a hard time recording this guitar) - AT2020 (all I've got at the moment) ----->VTB-1 (Full tube, not as much drive)

Both recorded to the AW1600 and then brought into Logic where I tweaked everything. I am used to analog tape compression in my recordings so everything is pretty squashed.

Let me know what you think....

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=962145&songID=7696332

(Now there is an updated version of the song on soundclick)
Click to expand...

Sounds fine to me. That combo seems to be working for you, and suits the character of your voice and the song.
 
It's funny, but the VTB1 seems to work well with your voice and the SM7, but it didn't work very well for me on my vocals with the mics I tried. It goes to show that what will work on one source may sound like crap on another. I like that combo on your voice...enough so that I may give the VTB1 another try with some more tube dialed in(I used to dial it way down). At the moment I'm using a Kel HM2D, and I like the very clean sound of the Rane ms1b with that mic. I tried a warmer pre and it didn't work well with the Kel mic, which is already very warm and thick. I just uploaded my first demo done with the Rane/Kel combo on my MySpace page. It's called "Cancer" if you want to have a listen for comparison.
 
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