Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears

dogooder

Well-known member
I need them, mine are shot. A little ditty I wrote and we recorded several years ago. We never got around to mixing it etc.
The gent who mixed most of my stuff recorded this but is not around to do the mixing anymore. I am taking my best shot
and could use some ears. I have not done much mixing.
Thanx
D.W.
 

Attachments

  • BOOTY BANDITS.mp3
    10.5 MB

mark skinner

Active member
Great energy and performance by Everyone. The main vocal sounds Very well recorded and EQd. How was this song recorded ? If you have the individual tracks there's plenty that could be done to improve it . I would start with the drums and bass soloed. Brighten the drums up a little and mix the bass in. Then bring in L/R "pairs" of instruments and treat them for a balanced sound. I'd keep the vocals muted and concentrate on the backing tracks until they're smoothed out EQd and the spikes tamed some. (like some of the opening sax notes). I'd do some further mixing and repost it. I think it needs to go thru a few stages. Great sounding band. This deserves whatever time it takes to get the mix as good as the performance. mark
 

dogooder

Well-known member
Great energy and performance by Everyone. The main vocal sounds Very well recorded and EQd. How was this song recorded ? If you have the individual tracks there's plenty that could be done to improve it . I would start with the drums and bass soloed. Brighten the drums up a little and mix the bass in. Then bring in L/R "pairs" of instruments and treat them for a balanced sound. I'd keep the vocals muted and concentrate on the backing tracks until they're smoothed out EQd and the spikes tamed some. (like some of the opening sax notes). I'd do some further mixing and repost it. I think it needs to go thru a few stages. Great sounding band. This deserves whatever time it takes to get the mix as good as the performance. mark
It was recorded on an Alesis HD24 using a Yamaha 02R mixer. There is no compression on the sax. I have all the individual tracks. I have only eq'd a few of the instruments
so far, the sax, lead guitar and vocals. This is the first rough mix and all suggestions will be taken into consideration. As stated, I haven't done much mixing. I can't even hear the bass on these computer speakers lol.
 

linz

Member
This a great track with loads of energy, the thing that stands out to me is that it is too sax dominated. Needs taking down and bringing back up for the break part. The vocals are really good and the sax is taking attention from that. In my opinion.
Otherwise it has captured the moment don't alter much. Don't ruin the zeitgeist.
 

markmann

Active member
I completely agree with what Mark and Linz said. The drums to me sound a little muffled and the sax should be brought down except for when it's the lead. One thing not mentioned yet is the kick drum which is almost non existent. I would EQ the kick so that it sits nice with the bass guitar and bring it up in the mix. It's a cool track and really only needs mild tweaks.
 

dogooder

Well-known member
I completely agree with what Mark and Linz said. The drums to me sound a little muffled and the sax should be brought down except for when it's the lead. One thing not mentioned yet is the kick drum which is almost non existent. I would EQ the kick so that it sits nice with the bass guitar and bring it up in the mix. It's a cool track and really only needs mild tweaks.
You are correct about the kick. The kick drum poses a bit of a problem. The recording of it is not very good. What I might have to do is get it as best I can,
then build around it.
 

dogooder

Well-known member
This should be the new mix with the recommended tweaking. I was able to get the kick "decent" I think. I EQd it and put some compression on it and brought the incoming signal into the board up. I didn't have it up enough last time around. I brightened up the drums and took the two snare tracks and panned them a bit. I also took off about half the FX on the drums which was probably causing muddiness? Brought the sax down behind the vocals and up where needed. I can't hear the bass or the kick on these laptop speakers. I am mixing with headphones on the 02R.
Let me know and Thanx to all.
DW
 

Attachments

  • BOOTYBANDITSII.mp3
    10.2 MB
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markmann

Active member
Definitely better. The kick is a bit too out front now but instead of lowering it I would experiment with dialing down some of the low/mid frequencies (not the low end though). The snare, IMO, could still use a bit more high end. You said you used compression on the kick and I know other do it as well but I have better luck using a limiter or loudness plugin to get a nice thumpy kick sound. If you listen to this track of mine you will hear what I am talking about. I know it's a different genre but you'll get the idea of what I did (the kick comes in at the 15 sec mark): https://markmansueto.bandcamp.com/track/rise-from-the-ash
 
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dogooder

Well-known member
Definitely better. The kick is a bit too out front now but instead of lowering it I would experiment with dialing down some of the low/mid frequencies (not the low end though). The snare, IMO, could still use a bit more high end. You said you used compression on the kick and I know other do it as well but I have better luck using a limiter or loudness plugin to get a nice thumpy kick sound. If you listen to this track of mine you will hear what I am talking about. I know it's a different genre but you'll get the idea of what I did (the kick comes in at the 15 sec mark): https://markmansueto.bandcamp.com/track/rise-from-the-ash
I don't have any plugins. I am not working on a computer. Will see what I can do. We had to break the drummer of a bad habit and it took some time. He would be thumping
the kick constantly and emphasizing the "kick beat". It made it difficult to get those emphasized beats to stand out without the "constant kick". One time we were playing a street festival. There was a band with a killer drummer. I took our drummer behind the stage and told him to watch this guys foot, thats how it's done lol. He took it well and we finally got him to stop. It didn't matter that much live, but recording was another story. In this song the kick is going constantly.
 
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markmann

Active member
I don't have any plugins. I am not working on a computer. Will see what I can do. We had to break the drummer of a bad habit and it took some time. He would be thumping
the kick constantly and emphasizing the "kick beat". It made it difficult to get those emphasized beats to stand out without the "constant kick". One time we were playing a street festival. There was a band with a killer drummer. I took our drummer behind the stage and told him to watch this guys foot, thats how it's done lol. He took it well and we finally got him to stop. It didn't matter that much live, but recording was another story. In this song the kick is going constantly.
Ok, gotcha. I somehow thought you had transferred your files over to a DAW. Funny story about the drummer. When I was reading about you taking the drummer behind the stage I thought something else was about to happen 👊
 

dogooder

Well-known member
Ok, gotcha. I somehow thought you had transferred your files over to a DAW. Funny story about the drummer. When I was reading about you taking the drummer behind the stage I thought something else was about to happen 👊
I have the old Mac G4 with protools 5.1. One of these days I am going to try and hook up the ethernet connection between the adat and the G4 and transfer them as wave files. I know how to set the HD24 and Mac to communicate with one another but I don't know what software or ap to use or how to use it. It states in the HD24 manual that a web browser should do it but other proprietary software will work quicker. What would I do, open a web browser and connect as if I was on the web to the HD24 and do a download as if I were downloading something off the internet?
 

mark skinner

Active member
It's sounding a Lot better. I remember the pains of editing outside of a DAW , I'll keep that in mind. One problem I'm having now is sections like around 0:45-0:52. It sounds like the sax and guitars are playing the exact same notes , in the same space , and with the same EQ. It's a little hard to tell exactly what would help those sections but it sounds narrow (space wise) without enough separation of the instruments. Maybe some wider panning and EQ or even dropping some of the notes , letting it syncopate L/R between the sax and guitars. Things like that are "easy" to try out in a DAW and if it doesn't work I try something else. I'll keep an eye on this thread and your progress. Have fun .. mark - EDIT- You just posted a new mix while I was typing. I'll be back. ms
 

markmann

Active member
I have the old Mac G4 with protools 5.1. One of these days I am going to try and hook up the ethernet connection between the adat and the G4 and transfer them as wave files. I know how to set the HD24 and Mac to communicate with one another but I don't know what software or ap to use or how to use it. It states in the HD24 manual that a web browser should do it but other proprietary software will work quicker. What would I do, open a web browser and connect as if I was on the web to the HD24 and do a download as if I were downloading something off the internet?
I'm afraid I will be of no help with that because I have an HP with windows and my DAW is Reaper. Someone with a Mac and Pro Tools should be able to help you.
 

dogooder

Well-known member
It's sounding a Lot better. I remember the pains of editing outside of a DAW , I'll keep that in mind. One problem I'm having now is sections like around 0:45-0:52. It sounds like the sax and guitars are playing the exact same notes , in the same space , and with the same EQ. It's a little hard to tell exactly what would help those sections but it sounds narrow (space wise) without enough separation of the instruments. Maybe some wider panning and EQ or even dropping some of the notes , letting it syncopate L/R between the sax and guitars. Things like that are "easy" to try out in a DAW and if it doesn't work I try something else. I'll keep an eye on this thread and your progress. Have fun .. mark - EDIT- You just posted a new mix while I was typing. I'll be back. ms
In the one section that is repeated, basically every instrument is playing the same notes, behind the vocal where I sing, you got to give it up, you got to give it to us etc. There is an auto mix feature on the board I am not familiar with. There are some other things that are not quite answered in the manual that I am not sure of. Things can
get a little busy, turning channels on and off, faders and such. I am not sure, but I think in the auto mix you can turn channels on and off and it will memorize your fader movements etc. I will have to look into it more. I would really like to get these tracks into protools and see whats up. I was able to record them in but I have yet to transfer files. The thing with doing that is, I would be starting from scratch, everything I have mixed so far would be lost. I could always keep the one mix I have saved in the board.
 

mark skinner

Active member
When I first moved away from tape machines , I used a Yamaha AW16G stand alone digital workstation. Later , moving the individual files to a pc I imported each instrument as a stereo wav file. No volume , pan , or effects were lost. It's really not like starting over. Everything can still be adjusted in the DAW but any effects will be baked in . You must Really be sure you like them before exporting. I'm sure at some point you'll want to try a pc or mac based set up. I would suggest starting out in one with less of a learning curve than pro tools. Reaper is cheap and Cakewalk by Bandlab is Free. Both have tons of online tutorials and help. Just my opinion. mark
 

dogooder

Well-known member
When I first moved away from tape machines , I used a Yamaha AW16G stand alone digital workstation. Later , moving the individual files to a pc I imported each instrument as a stereo wav file. No volume , pan , or effects were lost. It's really not like starting over. Everything can still be adjusted in the DAW but any effects will be baked in . You must Really be sure you like them before exporting. I'm sure at some point you'll want to try a pc or mac based set up. I would suggest starting out in one with less of a learning curve than pro tools. Reaper is cheap and Cakewalk by Bandlab is Free. Both have tons of online tutorials and help. Just my opinion. mark
I have used some in the past. Cakewalk, Logic, all long ago. I was also a CNC programmer for thirty years and have used all kinds of cadcam programs for
drawing and writing machine code.
 
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dogooder

Well-known member
You know, the end of this tune is a real clusterfunk that we should have done over and fixed. Alas, it is too late for that now.
 

dogooder

Well-known member
I took those suggestions and I finally got a much better kick going I think. It sounds much better to me? I panned the sax one way and the guitar playing the high notes in unison, opposite that. One thing, the guitar playing the high notes also has the sax mixed in at a slightly lower volume, as if the guitar was miced through an amp and picked up the sax solo? Otherwise I don't know how it got in there. I didn't do the recording and I don't remember how we tracked that guitar track. I could drop that track but it is the track that sprinkles the 9th chord in and I want to keep that. I guess I could turn the channel on and off in the different sections and drop those high guitar notes all together? I do turn that channel off as soon as the lead guitar comes in. It has some hokey lead on it leading me to believe it is the scratch track layed down explaining the sax being mixed in? There are four guitars tracks besides the lead track, I tried to pan them for the best mix? I kinda have to tweak it a bit now again and will be reposting it soon.
A DAW question. With all the panning I am doing it would be nice to swing the sax back on center during its solos. Using the board the only way to do that is in real time. Once you set the pan, it's set, the board memorizes wherever you have it set but it doesn't memorize real time changes, same with fader positions. I hope I am explaining this correctly. So, the DAW question is will the DAW software memorize all those real time changes. While mixing down on the board I am turning channels on and off, faders up and down etc. Adding having to work with the pan etc. I could see you where would need to become and octopus after awhile. Also on the board you cannot change eq or a dynamic processor or an FX in real time. Once set it is set. I am assuming on a DAW you can take sections of individual tracks and change all of this as it plays through and it will all be memorized?
Thanx for all the suggestions and help.

J.D.​

 
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