Fret boards
- Thread starter marshall.amps
- Start date
marshall.amps
New member
RandyW said:
Im expecting fretting to be harder than shaping the neck.
Milnoque
Resident Curmudgeon
Several thoughts:
The folks who are suggesting you buy a book are giving you very good advice. Hiscock's is a good one, but any title from Stew-Mac or Luthier's Merchantile etc. would work fine.
You have several important decisions to make before you proceed. For instance, scale length. Gibson's start at 24.65" from nut to bridge for their shortest popular model. Most PRS guitars come in at 25". I believe Fenders are longer. 25.5" is not uncommon. Scale length has quite an effect on tone and playability.
If you have a guitar you like you can copy its fret layout if you do it very carefully. A misplaced fret is a bad note.
You definitely want to radius the fingerboard. Many Fenders use a 9" radius, Gibsons are 12" or 16". To do this you can use a concave block and sandpaper. The blocks are available from luthier's supply houses and are often available on e-bay. They are not that expensive and are worth the money.
Your truss rod should be about 18".
Oak would probably work for a fingerboard. Be advised that it is very porous. White oak would be much better than red. It is stiffer and more stable if it is quartersawn. You would want to fill it and finish it (like maple boards).
For fretting you need a special saw that cuts the proper width for fret tangs. You also need small plastic headed hammer (some prefer brass). It also helps to get a small pair of nippers and grind the cutting edge flush. These tools are also relatively inexpensive.
Brian May built his guitar in shop class. You can do it too, but you have some studying to do.
Think this project all the way through and you will save yourself time and mistakes.
The folks who are suggesting you buy a book are giving you very good advice. Hiscock's is a good one, but any title from Stew-Mac or Luthier's Merchantile etc. would work fine.
You have several important decisions to make before you proceed. For instance, scale length. Gibson's start at 24.65" from nut to bridge for their shortest popular model. Most PRS guitars come in at 25". I believe Fenders are longer. 25.5" is not uncommon. Scale length has quite an effect on tone and playability.
If you have a guitar you like you can copy its fret layout if you do it very carefully. A misplaced fret is a bad note.
You definitely want to radius the fingerboard. Many Fenders use a 9" radius, Gibsons are 12" or 16". To do this you can use a concave block and sandpaper. The blocks are available from luthier's supply houses and are often available on e-bay. They are not that expensive and are worth the money.
Your truss rod should be about 18".
Oak would probably work for a fingerboard. Be advised that it is very porous. White oak would be much better than red. It is stiffer and more stable if it is quartersawn. You would want to fill it and finish it (like maple boards).
For fretting you need a special saw that cuts the proper width for fret tangs. You also need small plastic headed hammer (some prefer brass). It also helps to get a small pair of nippers and grind the cutting edge flush. These tools are also relatively inexpensive.
Brian May built his guitar in shop class. You can do it too, but you have some studying to do.
Think this project all the way through and you will save yourself time and mistakes.
marshall.amps
New member
Milnoque said:
lol,I would never try to make a guitar at my school shop my shop is way more better than the one at school.
Thanks for the advice.
Light
New member
marshall.amps said:
Well, I have to say that I've always found fretting much more difficult. I mean, shaping a neck is just getting rid of everything that doesn't look (and more to the point, feel) like a neck. I love shaping necks, but I have a fairly stong dislike of fret work.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
marshall.amps
New member
What do you guys use to cut your fret wire?
timthetortoise
MADE OF SANDALWOOD
I grinded a pair of wire cutters down and sometimes use those, or a Dremel cutting wheel. I like the Dremel more because it leaves it much cleaner and takes off a bit of finish work.
marshall.amps
New member
What should the diameter of my truss rod be i read about 3/16 but im not sure.I need to know soon cause im going to my grandpa's house in like an hour and he has the steel rod and welder and all that fun stuff.
marshall.amps said:
You don't need a truss rod, or a fretboard, or any of that stuff. All you need is a 2X4 and some hardware:
http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/5/t/015806.html
marshall.amps
New member
ggunn said:
Well im making a guitar not a bass.
My table saw beats his table saw any day.
PistolWhip
New member
marshall.amps said:
Haha yeah your saw is what caught my eye in your photos.
Milnoque
Resident Curmudgeon
You can use 1/4" mild steel for a truss rod
Be advised that there is more to a truss rod than threaded rod laid into a channel in the neck.
Cumpiano's book shows you how to make a double acting rod from mild steel. All it took was a propane torch, brass nuts, a threading die, and some shrink wrap. I tried it. It works fine.
Be advised that there is more to a truss rod than threaded rod laid into a channel in the neck.
Cumpiano's book shows you how to make a double acting rod from mild steel. All it took was a propane torch, brass nuts, a threading die, and some shrink wrap. I tried it. It works fine.
marshall.amps
New member
I made a truss rod lastnight i took pics of it ill try to post them tonight, have to do homework.
muttley600
Banned
Guys, New here came looking for info on mics as I'm getting back into recording stuff. Found this board to be helpful and stumbled on this thread while searching for other stuff and thought I'd offer a bit of advice. Hope you don't mind a newb chiming in.
So to the point-
marshall.amps I feel for you and remember all the questions I had when I started out so I'll see if I can give you some solid answers based on many years of experience building fretted instruments. You've already had some sound advice from Light take head of it. My one piece of advice on your early attempts at building is keep it simple. There are a lot of things going on so minimise your chance of making expensive mistakes.
First if you still haven’t shaped that neck don't do it yet.
The truss rod channel needs to be cut and the rod installed first. There are several types of rod and they all install slightly differently. The type of rod you use will dictate how long it is to be. So what type of rod have you made? The simplest truss rod would be the Gibson style adjusted at the headstock end. On and Electric it would typically terminate in the heel block where you have more room to anchor it. I would advise just going with a steel square section or T bar rod on your first instrument with no adjustment. Keep it simple. Too many people expect the truss rod to correct errors in the build or straighten a bowed neck. This is NOT what a truss rod is for. Its sole purpose is to correct the deflection created by the strings when it is strung up. Get your neck perfectly flat and add any relief you want before you fret. A good basic guide to truss rods can be found Here
On to the fret board itself. Oak wouldn't be the best choice but would work in a pinch. If you really want to make your own from lumber yard timber I would recommend you get some Maple. It has tighter grain and is stiffer in all directions as well as being more stable in service. You'll find it easier to work as well even tho it is harder than Oak. If you use Oak you will have problems down the line with grain filling and levelling to make the fingerboard comfortable to play. A better option all-round would be Indian Rosewood.
I would go along with Light and suggest you use a pre slotted board on your first attempt. If you want to cut and slot your own shout and I'll give you a walk through. You can do it with care and tools you can find easily.
For anyone else who want to know where to space frets try THIS
free little app it will give you any scale you could ever need at least in 12note ET.
The fingerboard should be on the unshaped neck before fretting. If you fret a board off the neck you have the possibility of back bow on the board as the frets are seated and it'll be harder to get the thing bang on line when you clamp it to the neck. Not saying you can't fret first just that you'll have more potential problems if you do.
To position and glue the fret board mark your centre line on the neck blank and on your fingerboard line them up dry without glue and clamp it in place. Make sure its right!! Next take a small drill and drill a locating hole through the first fret and twelfth fret. These will be hidden by the fret. Next pin the fingerboard onto the neck through these holes. Not to deep just enough for you to get a panel pin to hold the fingerboard in place. Cut the heads off the pins but leave enough to pull them after the board is glued in place. You’ll be glad you did this as as soon as you glue the board its gonna slide all over the place with out them. This is all assuming you have a flat and true join. I like to add a little relief across the width of the back of the fingerboard here to help get a good invisible join. Not much just a few thou to allow for any movement when the glue hits the join. Once your clamped up and happy leave it over night. When its dry you can add any relief you might want with a little careful sanding. I always leave mine dead flat any relief needed usually come when the strings are pulling on the neck. Too much relief and the truss rod will take care of it.
Now you can fret and shape the neck. You can fret first or shape first your choice I shape the neck first cos it seems to flow better that way.
Fretting itself is easy and I've never understood why people learn to hate it. If you tackle it methodically its easy enough. Ok I've done a fair few but I can slot, fret and dress a board in two hours without any problem. For your first one give your self a couple of days to get the feel right. Cut a few test slots on scrap the same depth and kerf as your neck and get a feel for it before you start for real.
First, I'll assume the neck is to be unbound. Cut all you frets over width by a few tenths get yourself a small pin hammer and start tapping the frets in to the slots at the edge of the fret board and work towards the centre. A small dab of titebond in the slot is ok but not too much or you'll clog the slot and the fret will not sit down. You don't need to hit it hard if you do then the fret tang is too wide for the slot. You now have a fretted neck with the frets overhanging the edge. Take a long file and run it along the fret ends untill they are flush with the fingerboard. As you hit the fingerboard edge turn the file so you get an angle on the fret ends. Kind of like " / " this angle.
Now if you've worked fairly precisely you will not have much fret dressing to do. You will always have some to do however unless you have been real lucky. Some of this is going to get dirty so mask off the fingerboard leaving the frets exposed. Take a fine FLAT wet stone or better still a diamond stone and run it across the top of the frets until you have knocked the top off all of them. The fret tops are all now level and you need to re crown and polish them. You can get special tools for this again but it is possible with some careful work with everyday tools. Using a flat needle file re-file the fret crown so it is round. You might find marking the fret tops with marker pen gives you an idea of how you’re doing. Just before the line is filed away is you’re your after with the fret now back to a nice round crown. Be vey careful not to nick the fingerboards as you go. Now get some wet and dry paper 800 grit up to 1600 and using nothing but you fingers as backing work along the fingerboard to remove any file marks finish with a real fine grade that is well worn. Finally use a burnishing cloth to polish to a shine with a little fine burnishing compound added. Don't get any on bare wood!! so keep the masking tape in place for the whole process. The last job is to roll off any sharp edges on the fret ends using your needle files and then polish them with dry paper.
Voila! One fretted and dressed neck.
For a really good Musical instrument BB check out the Musical Instrument Makers Forum One of the best music sites on the whole of the internet. Any Instrument any problem!! Just read the rules first.
Wow that was a long first post. Hope it's not out of place as I said was here looking for expert advise and found it so here's some in return. If its out of place I'll piss off an never come back. Later Guys!!
So to the point-
marshall.amps I feel for you and remember all the questions I had when I started out so I'll see if I can give you some solid answers based on many years of experience building fretted instruments. You've already had some sound advice from Light take head of it. My one piece of advice on your early attempts at building is keep it simple. There are a lot of things going on so minimise your chance of making expensive mistakes.
First if you still haven’t shaped that neck don't do it yet.
The truss rod channel needs to be cut and the rod installed first. There are several types of rod and they all install slightly differently. The type of rod you use will dictate how long it is to be. So what type of rod have you made? The simplest truss rod would be the Gibson style adjusted at the headstock end. On and Electric it would typically terminate in the heel block where you have more room to anchor it. I would advise just going with a steel square section or T bar rod on your first instrument with no adjustment. Keep it simple. Too many people expect the truss rod to correct errors in the build or straighten a bowed neck. This is NOT what a truss rod is for. Its sole purpose is to correct the deflection created by the strings when it is strung up. Get your neck perfectly flat and add any relief you want before you fret. A good basic guide to truss rods can be found Here
On to the fret board itself. Oak wouldn't be the best choice but would work in a pinch. If you really want to make your own from lumber yard timber I would recommend you get some Maple. It has tighter grain and is stiffer in all directions as well as being more stable in service. You'll find it easier to work as well even tho it is harder than Oak. If you use Oak you will have problems down the line with grain filling and levelling to make the fingerboard comfortable to play. A better option all-round would be Indian Rosewood.
I would go along with Light and suggest you use a pre slotted board on your first attempt. If you want to cut and slot your own shout and I'll give you a walk through. You can do it with care and tools you can find easily.
For anyone else who want to know where to space frets try THIS
free little app it will give you any scale you could ever need at least in 12note ET.
The fingerboard should be on the unshaped neck before fretting. If you fret a board off the neck you have the possibility of back bow on the board as the frets are seated and it'll be harder to get the thing bang on line when you clamp it to the neck. Not saying you can't fret first just that you'll have more potential problems if you do.
To position and glue the fret board mark your centre line on the neck blank and on your fingerboard line them up dry without glue and clamp it in place. Make sure its right!! Next take a small drill and drill a locating hole through the first fret and twelfth fret. These will be hidden by the fret. Next pin the fingerboard onto the neck through these holes. Not to deep just enough for you to get a panel pin to hold the fingerboard in place. Cut the heads off the pins but leave enough to pull them after the board is glued in place. You’ll be glad you did this as as soon as you glue the board its gonna slide all over the place with out them. This is all assuming you have a flat and true join. I like to add a little relief across the width of the back of the fingerboard here to help get a good invisible join. Not much just a few thou to allow for any movement when the glue hits the join. Once your clamped up and happy leave it over night. When its dry you can add any relief you might want with a little careful sanding. I always leave mine dead flat any relief needed usually come when the strings are pulling on the neck. Too much relief and the truss rod will take care of it.
Now you can fret and shape the neck. You can fret first or shape first your choice I shape the neck first cos it seems to flow better that way.
Fretting itself is easy and I've never understood why people learn to hate it. If you tackle it methodically its easy enough. Ok I've done a fair few but I can slot, fret and dress a board in two hours without any problem. For your first one give your self a couple of days to get the feel right. Cut a few test slots on scrap the same depth and kerf as your neck and get a feel for it before you start for real.
First, I'll assume the neck is to be unbound. Cut all you frets over width by a few tenths get yourself a small pin hammer and start tapping the frets in to the slots at the edge of the fret board and work towards the centre. A small dab of titebond in the slot is ok but not too much or you'll clog the slot and the fret will not sit down. You don't need to hit it hard if you do then the fret tang is too wide for the slot. You now have a fretted neck with the frets overhanging the edge. Take a long file and run it along the fret ends untill they are flush with the fingerboard. As you hit the fingerboard edge turn the file so you get an angle on the fret ends. Kind of like " / " this angle.
Now if you've worked fairly precisely you will not have much fret dressing to do. You will always have some to do however unless you have been real lucky. Some of this is going to get dirty so mask off the fingerboard leaving the frets exposed. Take a fine FLAT wet stone or better still a diamond stone and run it across the top of the frets until you have knocked the top off all of them. The fret tops are all now level and you need to re crown and polish them. You can get special tools for this again but it is possible with some careful work with everyday tools. Using a flat needle file re-file the fret crown so it is round. You might find marking the fret tops with marker pen gives you an idea of how you’re doing. Just before the line is filed away is you’re your after with the fret now back to a nice round crown. Be vey careful not to nick the fingerboards as you go. Now get some wet and dry paper 800 grit up to 1600 and using nothing but you fingers as backing work along the fingerboard to remove any file marks finish with a real fine grade that is well worn. Finally use a burnishing cloth to polish to a shine with a little fine burnishing compound added. Don't get any on bare wood!! so keep the masking tape in place for the whole process. The last job is to roll off any sharp edges on the fret ends using your needle files and then polish them with dry paper.
Voila! One fretted and dressed neck.
For a really good Musical instrument BB check out the Musical Instrument Makers Forum One of the best music sites on the whole of the internet. Any Instrument any problem!! Just read the rules first.
Wow that was a long first post. Hope it's not out of place as I said was here looking for expert advise and found it so here's some in return. If its out of place I'll piss off an never come back. Later Guys!!
muttley600
Banned
da Nada Thurgood, glad to have found you guys. Lots of good advice here for someone getting back into home recording after too long away
marshall.amps
New member
Theres my truss rod and I havent shaped the neck yet and Im now convinced to buy a fret board. I heard you should wrap your truss rod with teflon tape the stuff they use to seal threaded pipes so it does not vibrate but im not sure on that one.
Mutley600 do you think it would be okay if i use this one instead of a non adjustable rod like a t rod or square. This rod is not perfectaly strait i know that.
And i will be using a router mounted under my work bench with a fence on each side to route the slot for the truss rod. If i use a t rod or square rod will i need to anchore it at all or just make sure it fits snugly in the neck?
Mutley600 do you think it would be okay if i use this one instead of a non adjustable rod like a t rod or square. This rod is not perfectaly strait i know that.
And i will be using a router mounted under my work bench with a fence on each side to route the slot for the truss rod. If i use a t rod or square rod will i need to anchore it at all or just make sure it fits snugly in the neck?
