frequency same as tone?

[gecko zzed]

You then can add to this mess by introducing formants. A formant is roughly the resonant peak in a frequency spectrum. Two people singing the same note will sound different because of the shape of their voice tracts, which will emphasize different frequencies. If a couple of people with vastly different formants sing in harmony, it can sound very "untogether", whereas if the formants are similar (e.g. Everly Brothers), or complementary (Lennon & McCartney), the harmonies will sound very pleasing.

Within the one person, formants are variable (which gives vowels their typical sounds), and people can alter their formants. A good choirmaster will work on this so that the vowel sounds of an ensemble are similar.

The same applies to instruments: pick any two violins and play the same piece. They will sound different because of their differing formants (resulting from variations in construction, age and timber).

 

[ocnor]

STOP IT - STOP IT .....my brain can't take any more!

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[moresound]

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BOOM crap there goes my brain. Thanks ocnor.

 

[nialldoran]

gecko zzed wrote You then can add to this mess by introducing formants. A formant is roughly the resonant peak in a frequency spectrum. Two people singing the same note will sound different because of the shape of their voice tracts, which will emphasize different frequencies. If a couple of people with vastly different formants sing in harmony, it can sound very "untogether", whereas if the formants are similar (e.g. Everly Brothers), or complementary (Lennon & McCartney), the harmonies will sound very pleasing.

Within the one person, formants are variable (which gives vowels their typical sounds), and people can alter their formants. A good choirmaster will work on this so that the vowel sounds of an ensemble are similar.

The same applies to instruments: pick any two violins and play the same piece. They will sound different because of their differing formants (resulting from variations in construction, age and timber).

im not even trying to be funny here (well sort of) but does this mean twins have a better chance of sounding good singing together? (if they can acctually sing in the first place)

 

[donthaveaname]

All you need is a capacitor and a pot to make a passive tone control. The capacitor's value and how it's wired determines how the tone control will work, and what frequencies will be rolled off. I made a box that I plug my synth into that has a simple tone control, a pot and a cap, and I use it as a treble tone control - it rolls off the top.

Passive tone controls like that sound great, really great because they don't mess with the phase like the active tone controls on cheap mixers. The eq on most mixers is, to me, pretty unmusical.

Oh yeah! just like on a guitar! DUH!!

Hell the guitar even says "tone" on it. Jeez, that went right over my head

</stupidity>

 

[gecko zzed]

im not even trying to be funny here (well sort of) but does this mean twins have a better chance of sounding good singing together? (if they can acctually sing in the first place)

I reckon they would stand a better chance of sounding good singing together.

But the industry has many examples of families that sound good together (Carpenters, Beegees, etc.)

 

[dintymoore]

The Partridges...

If frequency and tone were the same then the song "867-5309/Jenny" would be by Tommy Tufrequency and the REM song would be called "What's The Tone, Kenneth?" so in a way that proves that they aren't the same thing.

 

[SEDstar]

Hummm... on a a piano and a guitar (dont know about any other instruments, but maybe) you not only have the fundamental and the overtones (2nd harmonic, 3rd harmonic, etc) B-U-T...

especially on a a piano you actually hear other things. When you strike a piano key, a lever makes a mallet of sorts strike a metal string, which makes the sound you hear... you also get the harmonics/overtones/etc...

AND, because a string is vibrating with what energy got transferred to it, it vibrates and gives off some of that energy... that is not happening in a vacuum, lol... that sound energy that vibrates your eardrum so you can perceive sound, and that vibrates a diaphragm so you can record sound... actually, very close to that vibrating strig, is a lot of OTHER strings...

THEY vibrate some too. A piano "single note" is a actually a mix of all the notes on that piano. The others are down so far in dB that you dont notice it, but they are there... making a piano a very complex sound to reproduce artificially...

actually, since the power of a vibration is inversely proportional to the distance between source and target... the closer strings to the struck note are vibrating a little bit louder than the others, and as you get further away in strring from the original, the intensity drops accordingly.

on a guitar I imagine this would be happening too, unless you happen to be palm muting the free strings...

 

[nialldoran]

oh yeah, i didnt even think of it in family terms just identical twin terms, i suppose it makes sense though, im new to the idea of formants though, i know a bit of musical science, and knew that two guitars or violins wouldnt be exactly the same just never knew percisely why,

thanks gecko

 

[SEDstar]

...

In general, even outside of music too...

"FREQUENCY" has a very specific meaning. How many times per second something is happening. (units other than the second could be used, but Freq is typically in Hz, or cycles per second)

"TONE" gets used all KINDS of ways, even within music...



Among other things, I also do electronics and HAM radio.The tones and overtones really isnt that foreign to me, just that I am used to dealing withg much higher frequencies (RF, not audio)

we vibrate a crystal with a voltage, BUT we then have to build a filter to make sure our overtones are WAY down in dB from the freq of interest, lest we make spurious emissions (sounds like what a teenager does in bed after a wet dream, LMAO, but it refers to messing up TV signals and the like)

I find a certain irony that in THAT discipline, I should like to eliminate all the overtones and harmonics and subharmonics if possible... and 'distortion' (non linearity...) is a bad thing to a HAM... here, in THIS discipline? Overtones are needed, and distortion is sometimes INTRODUCED to the waveform to make it ore pleasant to the ear, LMAO

we HAMS have "audio circuits" too, but, you audio guys would think them pathetic, LMAO

Heck, THD of 10% or less, is a fine figure of merit to a mono speaker on a 2-way radio, lmFao...

 

[moresound]

Hello there KB3OYZ 73 this is KB7HEN 56-----come back.

 

[XLR]

especially on a a piano you actually hear other things. When you strike a piano key, a lever makes a mallet of sorts strike a metal string, which makes the sound you hear...

Mechanical noise can be a big deal. Mic'ing is often affected by it. Wind instruments have clicking keys. Violin bowhair-on-strings is loud. Harpsichord keys being released can be pretty loud in comparison to the instrument sound. Guitar fretting squeaks. Classical guitar nail noise. The list could go on and on. A lot of these things blend in a natural way with the overall instrument sound when you move the mic back a few feet. And, along with the whole attack-sustain-decay sound envelope thing, and the overtone series thing, give instruments their unique sound.

actually, very close to that vibrating strig, is a lot of OTHER strings...

Sympathetic vibration of the strings is a big deal on guitar as well. Especially since, like piano, they're physically attached to the same vibrating soundboard. Strings whose fundamental pitch or overtones match (or are really close in freq) with the plucked/hammered "intended" string will vibrate like crazy. Play the high E of an acoustic guitar. Dampen it quickly and listen to the low E and low A strings. They'll be vibrating now too. And the A string will be sounding an E, which is in its overtone series. This subject just goes on and on though, because the A string's overtone E isn't exactly the same frequency as the first string open E, heh. If this morphs into an equal temperament discussion it's gonna get really ugly.

 

[mshilarious]

Passive tone controls like that sound great, really great because they don't mess with the phase like the active tone controls on cheap mixers. The eq on most mixers is, to me, pretty unmusical.

All analog filters "mess with the phase". That's how they work. The issue is how much--your pot/cap filter is a first-order high-shelf cut filter--if the pot is full off, then you get a first-order (6dB/octave) cut, if it's somewhere in the middle, then you get the shelving effect. Since that's fairly gentle, it means the phase shift is low.

On the other hand, mixer EQs, especially the midrange, are generally designed as higher-order filters (3rd is common), in order to be able to do notches. And you do need an active filter to be able to do a boost (or a much more complicated passive filter followed by makeup gain, but that could be noisier).

Thus, it's not whether the filter is active or passive, it is simply the amount of phase shift, which is a function of the steepness of the filter.

Of course, it's entirely possible the mixer EQ is simply made out of crap components . . .