Frank Black and the Catholics - Back to Rome

[Bubba po]

I had a bit of fun covering this while I'm on my summer holiday from work.

Frank Black was the singer from the Pixies. He has also been involved in his own solo projects for many years and produced some standout indie rock music.

Frank's ethos for recording is to get a band together and record everything live to two-track, all the mixing done on the fly. I've tried to remain true to that sonically although there are just two musicians on this recording.

I'd like to hear your comments.


View attachment Back to Rome.mp3

Update with a couple of bits of guitar added and some work done on the bass as per comments. Vocal tweaked a little, too.


View attachment Back to Rome.mp3

 

[Robus]

I haven't heard the original--or any of his post-Pixies work for that matter--so I don't know what you're aiming for here. What kept distracting me as I listened was the feeling that the bass and drums were not quite locking together. I think the bass is rushing in some places, dragging in others. To give an example, starting around 0:21, notice that awkward moment as the rhythm changes? Might need to rehearse it a few more times. Mixwise, given what you say about the aesthetic of the original it sounds fine. I'm hearing everything clearly, and nothing is too loud.

 

[Bubba po]

I haven't heard the original--or any of his post-Pixies work for that matter--so I don't know what you're aiming for here. What kept distracting me as I listened was the feeling that the bass and drums were not quite locking together. I think the bass is rushing in some places, dragging in others. To give an example, starting around 0:21, notice that awkward moment as the rhythm changes? Might need to rehearse it a few more times. Mixwise, given what you say about the aesthetic of the original it sounds fine. I'm hearing everything clearly, and nothing is too loud.

Cheers, Robus. I can't comment on the rushing/dragging thing as I've had a couple of wines and I need to listen to it more objectively. I haven't noticed a problem up until you mentioning it, but perhaps I'm just making allowances for the loose, live feel that I want the track to have. I'll re-listen tomorrow.

 

[TripleM]

I love the vocal performance. I thought it was excellent.

Guitars sound great. Love the sound of the drums too, especially the snare.

The bass is pretty boomy. It's got a frequency or two in the 120hz area that is really ringing out on a lot of notes.

Love the reverb sound on this. Don't know if it's added, or if it's the room. But it sounded good.

Vocals are just a bit pushed back in the mix. Just a bit. I really like the vocal, so I want it up front.

 

[Bubba po]

I love the vocal performance. I thought it was excellent.

Guitars sound great. Love the sound of the drums too, especially the snare.

The bass is pretty boomy. It's got a frequency or two in the 120hz area that is really ringing out on a lot of notes.

Love the reverb sound on this. Don't know if it's added, or if it's the room. But it sounded good.

Vocals are just a bit pushed back in the mix. Just a bit. I really like the vocal, so I want it up front.

Wow, muchos gracias TripM! The reverb is shorter and "roomier" than I normally use - I was really pleased with it myself. We bought two new snares a couple of months ago, and to my great delight both of them record really, really well. Loads of body as well as snap.

I always detest my vocal so it's usually a shock to get comments like yours, although they're very appreciated. I went back to the bass and put the ReaEQ analyser on it, and you know what? You were absolutely spot on. There WAS a hump that needed taming exactly around 120 Hz. You must have monitors with excellent bass reproduction and a good room because you always manage to identify rogue stuff in the bass end. I also checked the timing with the kick and bass isolated and I could only find a couple of spots where they didn't lock together well. If there are timing issues they must be in the guitars or snare. Or something else!

Thanks once again.

 

[TripleM]

The bass frequency was just a guess.

On the reverb... are you using an impulse file? Or what? I'd like to steal or otherwise acquire it.

 

[Bubba po]

The bass frequency was just a guess.

On the reverb... are you using an impulse file? Or what? I'd like to steal or otherwise acquire it.

It's a Focusrite plugin called Scarlett Reverb that came with my interface. I'm not sure if it's possible to acquire it any other way! It's a tweaked preset called "Medium Jam Room". I really like the reverbs on that plugin - they're very smooth and musical and it's simple to use.

 

[heatmiser]

I think this sounds really good. Great raw energy. Vocals are really good. Could be a bit louder, but it's fine with them pushed back a bit for the style.

I don't know the original btw...

Did you already fiddle with the bass based on MMM's comment? To me, the tone of the bass is awesome, and it really propels the song forward nicely. I just felt like maybe the level was a little too high, but again, it works as is. Guitars sound cool as do the drums. Nothing really wrong mix-wise to my ears.

 

[Bubba po]

I think this sounds really good. Great raw energy. Vocals are really good. Could be a bit louder, but it's fine with them pushed back a bit for the style.

I don't know the original btw...

Did you already fiddle with the bass based on MMM's comment? To me, the tone of the bass is awesome, and it really propels the song forward nicely. I just felt like maybe the level was a little too high, but again, it works as is. Guitars sound cool as do the drums. Nothing really wrong mix-wise to my ears.

Thanks, Heatmiser, I hadn't posted a new mix until you mentioned it, but I have now! I hope I haven't ruined it.

 

[heatmiser]

No, definitely not ruined. The differences are pretty subtle to my ear. I'm toggling back and forth now. I like whatever you did to the vocal. It seems more present without necessarily seeming much louder.

I can't really tell on the bass. It almost seems like it lost a bit of the snarl I liked so much on the 1st mix, but it's still there, and still loud! lol

Sounds good man.

 

[Robus]

New mix is the second link in the OP? I'm not hearing major differences but I can tell the bass got some love. The mix just sounds a little cleaner and tighter, and the balance between bass and guitar levels better. I'm not really noticing timing issues to the extent as before. Did you do some editing? Some harmony vox would sound great in the chorus. Good guitar playing and singing too. If I recall, the only other vocals I've heard from you were on a Clash cover, or maybe two? They sounded fine, as does this. No reason to be self-conscious about your singing.

 

[Bubba po]

New mix is the second link in the OP? I'm not hearing major differences but I can tell the bass got some love. The mix just sounds a little cleaner and tighter, and the balance between bass and guitar levels better. I'm not really noticing timing issues to the extent as before. Did you do some editing? Some harmony vox would sound great in the chorus. Good guitar playing and singing too. If I recall, the only other vocals I've heard from you were on a Clash cover, or maybe two? They sounded fine, as does this. No reason to be self-conscious about your singing.

Thanks, yes the changes have been subtle. I added some guitar fills that are fairly buried and I sharpened up the vocal eq so it cuts through without being too sibilant or woody. I did a bit of EQ and timing work on the bass, but surprisingly little. It just shows how a couple of shaky parts can colour the impression of the whole track.

The last few songs I've done (my originals, mainly) I've stayed away from doing the main vocal, apart from the Clash ones and the "Game Over" recreation (I'm recording the original singer on Monday - I'm a bit excited )

Last year and earlier, though, I covered a few Magazine and Radiohead tracks while doing the lead vocal.

 

[Robus]

That's right, I forgot about that "Game Over" recreation.

 

[Nola]

I agree with Robus. I hear something off with the groove. I can't pinpoint it exactly.

Pixies are pretty much the only "indie" band I've ever hated (they have some gems, but in general they are so white boy/generic with their groove and rhythm that it's hard to get into it). I tried to remove that bias while listening to it. :/

I feel like the tempo is a little slow, too, though I don't know the original.

I'd notch the vocal presence a hair (or raise volume ~1db) and make a subsequent cut around 400hz on the entire mix (master stage). The drums are slightly boxy.

 

[Bubba po]

I agree with Robus. I hear something off with the groove. I can't pinpoint it exactly.

Pixies are pretty much the only "indie" band I've ever hated (they have some gems, but in general they are so white boy/generic with their groove and rhythm that it's hard to get into it). I tried to remove that bias while listening to it. :/

I feel like the tempo is a little slow, too, though I don't know the original.

I'd notch the vocal presence a hair (or raise it ~1db) and make a subsequent cut around 400hz on the entire mix. The drums are slightly boxy.

It's perfectly ok not to dig the Pixies, but to call their grooves "generic" is a bit puzzling, considering their experimentation with unusual time signatures and off-beat drum patterns.

I disagree strongly with the comment about boxy drums, but opinions are just that.

Otherwise, thanks for the listen and comments.

 

[Armistice]

Hey bubba - I can hear the improvements in the second mix - crisper and more coherent if that doesn't sound too wanky. I think you've achieved the vibe you were after- now that I've listened to the original a few times. Nice work. The bass is sounding really good, tone-wise to me.

 

[Bulls Hit]

Don't know the original. Nice warm recording. Drums, guitar...overall sonics well balanced and sounding good. Little narly bit around 2.30. Well done

 

[paulman77]

I'm only listening on my crappy headphones, since I can't listen on monitors right now. My roommate sleeps until late afternoon, and I don't live that rock and roll lifestyle anymore. That being said, it sounds really good. I'm thinking about what you said about my vocal on The Bends, and I think it applies here as well. You couldn't sound more different from Frank Black, but your voice is perfect for his song in a different way. I'm going to listen again later through the good stuff, as these headphones make everything sound a little boxy. I'm also dying to check my own mixes from last night, but I have to wait. I've been trying to decide what Pixies song I want to cover, and this inspired me to get back on that. Pretty much every song of theirs is a gem, but hard to do justice to. Frank Black sounds insane, in the most pleasing way possible. Hard to imitate, harder to do your own version of. I don't know the song you covered here, but your version sounds great, and you do your own thing with it very well.

 

[Bubba po]

I'm only listening on my crappy headphones, since I can't listen on monitors right now. My roommate sleeps until late afternoon, and I don't live that rock and roll lifestyle anymore. That being said, it sounds really good. I'm thinking about what you said about my vocal on The Bends, and I think it applies here as well. You couldn't sound more different from Frank Black, but your voice is perfect for his song in a different way. I'm going to listen again later through the good stuff, as these headphones make everything sound a little boxy. I'm also dying to check my own mixes from last night, but I have to wait. I've been trying to decide what Pixies song I want to cover, and this inspired me to get back on that. Pretty much every song of theirs is a gem, but hard to do justice to. Frank Black sounds insane, in the most pleasing way possible. Hard to imitate, harder to do your own version of. I don't know the song you covered here, but your version sounds great, and you do your own thing with it very well.

Thanks, Paulman. It sounds like we have very similar musical tastes! I'd love to do another Pixies cover myself, I've only done "Where is My Mind" so far, because Frank's voice is so intense and has a lot of high notes that I'm not comfortable with. I really wanted to do "Debaser" and I'm confident I could make a very good backing track, but I'd have no chance with the vocals. If ever you fancy a collab, hit me up.

I have another Frank Black song to post, waiting in the wings, called "All My Ghosts". I need to redo the vox, though.

 

[paulman77]

Hmm. I might be able to pull off Debaser. If I can, that would be a blast to sing. I'd definitely be interested in that. I'm always interested in collaborating. I've also thought about covering Hey or Tame. Or Gouge Away. Those are pretty much the three I've been debating. I've decided I need to record more covers to hone my skills before recording more originals. I've got another Radiohead cover to post, Like Spinning Plates, but I need to fix the loudness first.