For those of you who rail incessantly on Behringer...

[pipelineaudio]

I am not justifying it....I am pointing out the hypocrisy of those who rail against Behringer while ignoring the same behavior of a "US" brand name.

That would be some ridiculous hypocrisy. But in my experience, the same people who complain about behringer complain about crappy DBX's as well. This is somewhat of a false dichotomy

The APEX vs Telefunken thing shows this all too well

Truth is: they all copy from each other relentlessly, so whether we think it is justified or not is a moot point to this discussion.

And they all pay the same price: less brand loyalty

And yet the M-Audio DMP2 and DMP3 9as well as many others) are wel respected sound-wise.

Anyone I know who doesn't like *some* behringer stuff doesn't like those either

Its important to take this stuff on a case by case basis. ALL behringer gear is a good value for the money, noone is disputing that. Some of it is dumber to use in certain situations than others

Tarring everyone with a behringer complaint with one brush just doesn't adress reality

 

[Supercreep]

It is just so amazing that people who will swear that Behringer sounds like crap can never correctly distringuish different brands of audio gear in truly blind A/B tests.

In an application that required serious gain reduction, I think I could tell the difference between my "Autocom" four channel compressor/gate and a Distressor. What about you?

 

[The Axis]

In an application that required serious gain reduction, I think I could tell the difference between my "Autocom" four channel compressor/gate and a Distressor. What about you?

I think it would be an interesting test.
I would applaud anyone who would set up a truly blind A/B test.
Since I never use compressors for 'serious" gain reduction, I have no idea what that would sound like.

But I *suspect* that if an uncompressed track was given the 'tasteful" amount of compression, it would be very difficult for me to distinguish.
I don't claim to have "golden ears". I would like to hear the results of a real test.

There is a thread on this forum about mike pres, though; and if I remember crrectly, the final choices were approximately 33% each for each of three preamps, with the cheapest preamp coming out as the best liked by a small percentage.
Note the psychology involved in something like this: pure chance is 33%, .....so 33% of people feel that their "ability to hear higher quality" was confirmed, even though it is still just pure chance!

Please note also that I don't think any of these things is worth 'arguing" about. If anyone feels that they need to buy some hoity-toity audio equipment, more power to them ! I did it too at one time !
But the persistence of Bhringer bashing just makes me note some other agendas at work, so I try to jump in with my opinion, which can also save some people who haven't had the luxury of playing with this stuff some money.

 

[MCI2424]

This thread IS about Behringer gear! I'm not sure what you mean about pressing every point to absurdity. I listed professionals who use their gear, anyone with half a brain should come to the conclusion that their gear .. or some of it .. is of professional quality, up to the task, otherwise there is no reason these pros would bother. As far as my tune, thanks. I'll still put it up against his, I feel many of my recordings done with semi cheap gear stand up or sound better than many of the "pros" out here who use high end stuff and know a lot more than me. Hey, this is a recording site, we're sticking to recording talk, it's all good, no need to move on.

To be honest, I have no hate or love for Behringer gear at all. But, I have used their high-end mixing board and an EQ. The difference in sound with both units is immediately apparent upon plugging it in. Their mixing console is OK (and certainly as good as the Mackie it copied) but anything above it really kills it in sound (Soundcraft, A&H etc.). There is nothing wrong with using any name equipment to record as lond as the equipment does what you want period. The problem is that when you upgrade little-by-little and then go back much later, the difference is clear. It is hard to hear any "big" differences when you are learning and "in the trenches" so to speak. It is only when you start to really understand recording and get experience under your belt that looking back shows what a big difference good equipment can make.

 

[nickwarhead]

I think Behringer ripped this design off too, for their Mic100 Preamp.

Behringer gets railed upon so much because of three reasons:

1. It is made in China. Of course a great many name brands now also have their stuff made in China, but Behringer was the first to openly and unashamedly go there. This caused a lot of "PC" animosity.

2. It is cheap. ....meaning LESS EXPENSIVE. That means EVERYONE in the music industry is going to automatically bash it because they don't make as much money selling it.

2. It is cheap....meaning very flimsy mechanically. This contributes to its low cost, and reliability can become an issue. But the same holds true for much of the M-Audio gear and numerous other inexpensive products.


I am an Acoustic Engineer...not an AUDIO Engineer. I work with sonars and ultrasonic transducers whose specifications far surpass anything even dreamed of in the audio world. Behringer makes fine SOUNDING equipment. If you have a properly functioning Behringer, it will sound as good as ANYTHING out there. The world of audio is full of a lot of insecure arteeests trying to justify the higher quality of their sound and artist endeavors with more expensive equipment. Also, in truth, a more physically rugged and robust piece of equipment contributes to long-term value....but not necessarily to audible quality. Just as completely hash out in the preamp threads, not even the most golden-eared audiophile can reliably distinguish between preamps. Same holds true for mixers, etc. I have owned numerous bits of Beghringer stuff and never had any problems with any of it. In fact, the Ultracurve and Ultracomp DSP units are superior to many competitors, and provide features that no other units provide.
Yet once every 3-4 months, I log in to check this forum and find the SAME PEOPLE vigorously bashing Behringer.
If you don't like it....OK. But the relentless bashing becomes obviously part of some agenda.

The 'ethical issue":
How many moral purists were sent into a fit when DBX copied the ART Tube MP ?

 

[talontsiawd]

I read though alot but skipped some of the debate. I wasn't overly impressed to be honest. It sounded fine to me. Like someone said, it sounded like demo quality. And that doesn't surprise me at all.


In my experence with behringer, it's been mixed. I said this in another thread. I have an older composer that works great, it's almost silent, and it's transparent. I havn't used other compressers in my own environement but it seems about the same as other compressors that are budget, maybe 2 or 3 times the price, no worse.

But, my mixer had all sorts of problems. Soundquality was the least of my concerns, it wasn't reliable enough to use. That's the major complaint i've had with some of their products and i'm not alone. I don't care how great something sounds if i have to stop in the middle of something because it's acting up. I think reliablility is the most important thing with audio gear, so who cares how it sounds if it isn't working properly.

 

[xstatic]

Personally, I don't care whether their stuff is made in China, I don't even really care about who they may have copied it form. What I don't like about Behringer equipment is that it just doesn't sound very good. Some Behringer stuff certainly sounds and/or functions better than others, some doesn't. The composers work decent, for a CHEAP compressor. The patchbays work OK, but the switches get dirty very easily and the jacks are not tensioned properly. The Headphone amps get nice and loud, but sound pretty bad. The consoles have lots of crosstalk, low headroom, horrid sounding EQ's, very mediocre preamps, and don't take much abuse. Then again all these things are very inexpensive. Oh lets not forget how bad the EQ's and crossovers sound. There are a ton of reasons why I don't care for Behringer and none of them are really related to any political or moral reasons. In fact, if I know someone absolutely has to stay in the Behringer price range, I have on occasion even reccomended certain Behringer items. What I do disagree with though is when people fall for all the marketing hype and try and try and pretend that there is no reason to consider something else and try and view their Behringer equipment on the same level as other more expensive stuff that was actually designed, built, and implemented well and also sounds good.

 

[Carny1122]

You'll have to excuse me but.......I'd rather listen to 60hz hum than what I heard on that link you sent us to. Tell me you do NOT call that music? If that is music than indeed I've passed on into another world. Sorry, but screaming and yelling and banging will NEVER be music in my book.....and perhaps not even worthy of Behringer gear........even the distortion specs are lower than the drivel I just heard.........

That's what foundation does, Metal, punk, hardcore, metalcore...nothin' but that. I have some good buddies (Death Virginia, out of Morgantown, WV) who recorded an entire demo there, got it professionally mastered, and it sounds incredible. Just because it's not your cup of tea doesn't mean that it's not quality recording. Personally, I've checked out a lot of stuff that he does at Foundation, and for the price, and the quality, you can't beat it if you're a metal band on a budget. Hell, I've got better equipment and I still can't touch what he does. If he knows how to use it, why not use it? He makes it sound good. And yes, that IS music, regardless of what you think it sounds like. Personally, I love it. I'm not gonna get into a pissing match - to each his own - but simply because you disagree with the style of music doesn't mean that the guy sucks at his job, because he doesn't.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Like the great Prophet, Mike of Venice said, "Just cuz you dont understand it dont mean it dont make no sense, and just cuz you dont like it dont mean it aint no good"

 

[Carny1122]

Like the great Prophet, Mike of Venice said, "Just cuz you dont understand it dont mean it dont make no sense, and just cuz you dont like it dont mean it aint no good"

Bingo...Thanks man haha. That's exactly what I was getting at.

 

[mark73]

Not being funny, but everyone has to start somewhere, and hopfully when i gather some studio gear i dont doubt that some of it will be behringer. At the end of the day its accessable for learning when your on a tight budget, im not saying that its anywhere near the best but does the job for some people and if hes earning money out of it then well done that man.

 

[Ironklad Audio]

man...i wish this thread would just die...the guy who owns the studio in question got fairly pissed at me in the 1st place for "outing" him on using behringer shit all over, which is completely understandable. i thought this thing was history, then someone went and dug it back up...and to top it off, he doesn't even have/use any of his behringer shit anymore.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Xytar!

couldn't help it

 

[MOFO Pro]

These Behringer threads are like freeway car wrecks... you drive by swearing you're not going to look, nope, not interested... come on people move along... nothing to see here... hey, what's that... damn... I looked...